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welcome alex ferrari from i think your
your latest is on the corner of ego and
desire that just that came out recently
and indie film hustle
and you're an author and and a speaker
and and you're
i mean the hyphen it is is real with
this one so give me a little bit of your
i like to call it the origin story
because we're all superheroes with what
we do
so give me a little yeah and and you and
i have both we've had long careers in
this business
so try to give me a little bit of your
origin story and kind of what brought
you to where you are now and then we can
dive right in
yeah well first of all thank you for
having me on the show man i love what
you're doing and and the anger you're
taking
with talking about something that needs
to be talked about right now question
now more than ever yeah then some
my origin story is you know i fell in
love with movies when i was
working at a video store uh back in the
in the late 80s early 90s when i was
where i was in high school
and that's where i kind of felt really
fell in love with blockbuster and i
think we all
i would never work at that corporate
place sir i was
i was a mom and pops or as a mama pop it
was called video city that's the way we
like it so i fell in love with
films really there and during those four
or five years that i was
working there i absorbed everything i
watched as much cinema as humanly
possible
and uh and i just decided to become a
director and went to film school
i went to full sail in in orlando
awesome
back in the day when it was a very young
program and
i learned two very good skills there uh
how to make a cup of coffee
and how to roll how to uh wrap cable two
very very important things
i think it wasn't worth twenty thousand
dollars personally um
but uh and you know what though whenever
i'm on set and i'm wrapping cables
around my elbow myself i'm like i
remember learning that
like i remember well there was that well
there's a technique there's a technique
and you got a yellow
twist so it doesn't
[Laughter]
right but um yes from there i just i
jumped into uh post-production
and uh that's where i kind of got my i
started making my bones i i realized
that
i did not want to be a pa i was i did a
lot of pa work
universal studios in florida and worked
on some big shows there
and i just said this sucks uh i'm gonna
i'm gonna get into posts where i can sit
in an air-conditioned room all day
yep that's me and uh and then just cut
yeah it was like great so
that's what i did and i went out and
ventured out as a freelance editor for a
while
then i started directing commercials
music videos um tv shows things like
that
and then it took me 20 years before i
made my first feature purely because of
my own fears and
i didn't break through all of that and
i'm skipping through a whole lot
sure sure well i you know we've been
around we've been around the block
there's a lot to talk about
yeah but but basically that's where it
is and then i launched indie film hustle
uh in 2015
okay as a as a way to add
a voice i felt at the time there wasn't
a voice out there
who had actually had shrapnel
you know yeah exactly
and i wanted to kind of put a a real
voice out there because i kept hearing
people talking i'm like dude
you just got out of college shut up i'm
sorry like you don't
like i've been down the block like i
wanted to give people the truth they
were talking a lot
more about um theory and i was like no
no man that's not the way this
this game is played so i wanted to come
out there with a voice and
uh i came out guns of blaring and uh
that was five years ago now
and i've been able to build out uh a
full-blown business now i
you know i i'd like to say i retired
from the post job
i i own my own post-production company i
shut it down
and i i i walked away from
post-production about two and a half
years ago i started doing this full-time
so now this is my full-time gig and
writing books and speaking and then
doing movies i wanted to try and you're
still working on your own personal
projects and
you know movies to be shot or you know
whatever what what may come
writing and yeah and that's the thing as
you get older you know the dream that
you had at 20 is not the dream you have
at 40. certainly
you know it's a completely different set
of
a set of dreams so i started to realize
that
writing a book gave me the same
expression as an artist
that making a movie does oh that's great
you know yeah creating my podcast
creating the content
consulting with filmmakers uh building
out this online business that i've been
able to build out
uh things like that really uh enriched
my life
as well as filming so before was just
like it's about the features only about
sure
that's the only thing and when you have
that kind of
laser focus on a thing it can't be good
but it also could be extremely damaging
because when that doesn't
happen and we can be honest here right
generally it doesn't in this business it
takes a long time for things to get
going
it sure does um uh when it falls then
your whole world falls apart
whereas if you have multiple interests
multiple dreams
that you have different ways to express
yourself so if like you know if
i'm developing a project and a producer
says hey you know we can't get the
financing for this right now
my entire world is not rocked i've got
40 other things
that i'm doing right now and it's kept
my
mental sanity good going
where before it was so all about
just the getting a feature done getting
a movie done getting
getting that job getting that lottery
ticket getting that thing
that it was really damaging because it
was constant
ups and downs ups and downs you're like
oh it's almost there
oh it's not there yeah almost there oh
it's not there then like oh it's about
to drop the money's about to drop oh the
actor's about to sign oh we're
we're about to do this and it happens or
it doesn't happen and it just
constantly it was this constant upside
uh going up and down roller coaster ride
where emotionally you you just get
destroyed and it's
i think if you're gonna make it in this
business that's the thing that they
don't tell you
is that you really need to um mentally
be prepared it's not about the talent
sure
the talent is that's a you're that's a
given
that you're you're talented right get
into the door it's a given that you have
some sort of talent or else you wouldn't
be in the conversation
but everyone says oh well you have to be
talented talented
talent is overrated in this business
and this business talent is overrated
because i will
and i'd argue in most businesses talent
is great but talented without hustle is
useless
sure talent has said only takes you so
far it's the mental stability and the
mental
hardness of lack of a better word that
you can you can survive
this business right uh because it is
brutal
on your emotions it's absolutely
devastating
uh on a day in day out scenario in our
in our business
sure and the ones who survive the ones
who make it to that to that next level
are people who are extremely mentally
strong
and have work ethic and talent as well
and and i appreciate that because that's
yeah that really is what it's all about
when you got started when you were 20
your dreams of what you wanted to
accomplish in this business
were different than what they are now
you know and you went through a process
where
it evolved what you wanted from your
career what you wanted from this
business this industry
changed over the years and absolutely
one of the things that
can help people have a better mindset
and a better positive outlook
is to have confidence in their dreams
and kind of know what they want to do
that's been one of my problems over 20
years i always thought do i want to be a
director do i want to be an editor you
know i got started as an editor
because i didn't want to be a director
everyone wants to be a director everyone
wants to move to la and be an actor
i wanted i was like i'll be contrarian i
want to be an editor and then
as i met people and got established out
here i was like do i want to be a
director now listen my documentary is a
personal documentary so i'm out my
family i was never gonna
you know hire someone else to do it it
was always gonna be mine but
one of the things that kind of took me
off track was what do i really want from
this business what i really want to do
can you talk to me a little bit about
the process of
your dreams and what you wanted out of
this business about that changing over
the years
and how confident you know maybe it was
indie film hustle in 2015 how confident
do you feel
in the direction your career is going in
now and how comfortable do you feel
in the place where you are first and
foremost when i decided
to go after this dream of being in this
business directing has always been the
number one thing
okay that was it i was like i just knew
it was directing editing and post was
always
announced to a means okay i loved it i
enjoyed it
it i mean i've done it i did it for
about 20 odd years so obviously i
i enjoyed it uh during that time but
directing was
was always the end game the directing
bug
is unfortunate it's in me it will never
go away
right uh it is an illness that i'm stuck
with
for the rest of my life and it will
flare up every once in a while and
every time you see maybe i'll see a
documentary with fincher or nolan or
kubrick and i'll be like
uh starting right getting getting those
hives getting that it's getting those
hives i gotta
gotta go gotta go right so directing is
always something
uh that will be there for me i always
want to direct but it's not the only
thing anymore
and i feel so comfortable with that i
feel
so so comfortable with that being in
this business for such a long time
and and going through all the stuff that
i've gone through i just realized
what makes me happy sure all right what
i'm currently doing now
makes me really happy and it has been
for the last five years that was gonna
be one of my next questions
yeah i'm really happy doing what i'm
doing i i get up every morning
come in and start working and i
love it i love it i love the solidarity
about it just being by myself
doing it but i also love talking i talk
to people all day right
on the phone or through skype uh or
through zoom
so it's not like i'm just sitting here
alone like a hermit i'm not
but i am because after being 20 years
with people in the room telling you what
to do
it's so wonderful not to have that and
then we'll get me to work with you with
that
as i got older i started choosing my
clients
and i and i sometimes i would just walk
away from a deal when it was just like i
can't work with you i just can't i'm
good i'm gonna i'm gonna just kill you
as you get older you're talking
unfortunately metaphorically yes meta
metaphor
as you get older you just give less of a
crap about things and that's only
unfortunately
like it's something that only comes with
time
and like you say experience wisdom
whatever you want to put on it
no without question i mean you know when
when i was young i was so so
arrogant so full of myself because i got
a lot of success very quickly
i got to la about 12 years ago in la
when i first got here the first movie i
did and i was so
i was so happy by the way like so happy
as i was landing to la i already
had a job waiting for me i like
literally had to get my final cut system
set up so i could start working on it i
had landed the job
and they just happened to live in la and
they're like oh i'm moving next week
okay great perfect we got your feature
for you
right but that wasn't the world it
wasn't and i was so blessed and happy to
do that
project and i love the people i worked
with and they were really cool about it
and everything
but that was like you do what you got to
do and that was that's like the nicest
of the things i i mean i've done jobs
right oh my god i was abused left and
right and you're like i have to do it
because i got to take i mean i work
god i could tell you stories well let's
talk let's talk a little bit about that
and you know maybe we can you know bring
in your book a little bit shooting for
the mob
because i know that was you know part of
part of that and you know your your
you know like you said your origin story
one of the things that i feel very
strongly about very strongly about and i
see it a lot on twitter you know because
you know i'm you know trying to get
involved in the you know especially the
micro budget community
tends to skew younger and
just because you know they don't have a
lot of money and they're trying to do it
themselves
and you know they have they just sure go
and do the hustle it's great
but one of the things that that's a pet
peeve of my like you know something
near and dear to my heart is people in
hollywood
no when i say hollywood you know
entertainment industry people in the
business
putting up with [ __ ] that they shouldn't
have to in order to further like we were
talking earlier with the dreams you know
they think they have a dream of what
they want to do
and they allow themselves i've been a pa
i've been yelled at i
i had the swimming with sharks you
brought me equal and not splenda
go get me my splenda i and
and that time i said [ __ ] you i quit i
leave
i walked out of that job right then and
there because i refute and i was what
maybe well i was very impetuous i was
maybe i think 21 at the time
but i hate hearing stories
about young people trying to break into
the business allowing themselves to be
treated
poorly because they think it will
further their dreams
and i want to empower people that's
giving a voice to people
who didn't have one before and i want to
say use that voice if someone's treating
you like
[ __ ] you don't have to put up with it
and that you know i tie that into mental
health
because i don't want to wake up as you
know 21 year old me
i don't want to wake up when i'm 40 and
be like i can't believe i allowed myself
to be treated like that and my dreams
still haven't come true
so i want to empower people to like have
that basic respect
to defend themselves in that and i know
you've had some experiences with being
treated
poorly so you know say the least exactly
so
what did you do to you know in those
moments when you're being treated so
poorly
to protect yourself and to try to
maintain some autonomy if you will
well when you and i were coming up there
were a lot less options
oh absolutely you had you had to kind of
eat
a lot of [ __ ] sure during those those
early years
there wasn't like it wasn't like you can
go off and make your own thing it wasn't
like you could all
you could you couldn't even buy your own
editing system avid's worth hundreds of
thousands of dollars right
so the technology wasn't there yet the
opportunities weren't there
the internet wasn't really there yet so
there was a lot less options back then
and
i was i was yelled at i was abused i got
taken advantage of all the time when i
was coming up
and and the biggest example of that i
wrote i wrote a book about
which is called shooting for the mob and
how i almost made a 20 million dollar
film for the mafia and that story would
be amazing as
at its uh by itself but then hollywood
took this
psychopath seriously and then i was
flown out to la as a 26 year old
and i met the biggest movie stars in the
world that i met billion dollar
producers i was at the head of
the biggest agencies uh i was meeting
you know power
brokers at the chateau marmont and and
the uh
you know at the ivy and that's those and
all these places and it was like this
whirlwind experience and you feel like
you've made it because that's where they
all hang out so if i'm hanging out where
they're hanging out
there i am look i got to tell you when
you're sitting acro
if you're sitting three feet away from
batman which i was
all right i'm sitting three feet away
from an actor who played batman in his
wayne manor style home on an estate
that's 20 000 acres in the middle of a
undisclosed location and you're sitting
there and you're like
how is this not making it how is this
not
my dream like how is how is this has to
be it
like how could i not how can this not go
and having that experience again and
again in this about 12-month period of
my life
was excruciating and but that's not the
that was that if it was just
that i would accept it but having a
sociopath
who was basically joe pesci from
goodfellas
one day he could be the funniest almost
awesome just like i want to have a beer
with this guy
kind of person right and in a split
second am i clown to you
do i amuse you and that's where you're
at and you
it was like this bipolar and i think he
was undiagnosed bipolar
scenario and literally my life was being
threatened
on a daily basis so imagine the stress
the mental stress
of going to a job which you're not
really getting paid for you get paid
every once in a bloomer whenever he
decides to pay you
and if you ask for a paycheck he'll yell
and threaten to put snakes in your car
uh and alligators in your uh bathtub now
also let's mention that
this is not a normal experience for up
and coming filmmakers you will usually
absolutely everyone get
this don't you know this you didn't get
this i did not get the stakes the snakes
in the car
i didn't have everything gets the sticks
obviously we're not in the same circle
everyone gets the snakes in the car and
death threats on a daily basis everyone
gets that
these are generally not considered
normal uh i i am an extreme version this
is an extreme story
uh hence why it warned it in a book but
you know what but it's good but it's
good to
to talk about too because you know for
some people
getting yelled at for bringing the wrong
coffee is is the equivalent of the
snakes in the car
because it's still a shock to your
system that
a that people are out there that exist
like that outside of them
and b that you're intertwined with them
somehow and see how do i maintain my own
semblance of sanity when i have all of
this madness happening around me no
without without question
and i had never dealt with anything like
that in my life now again it all depends
on your background you might have
dealt with this all your life people
yelling at you it might be nothing to
you but
a lot of people in the normal scenario
it's extremely difficult to deal with so
with my story
it wasn't just a job this was the dream
right so i'm i'm literally being flown
around
meeting all these people and you know i
have a production office i have a
production team we were in
pre-production for three months
like how could this not be it and also
the biggest the biggest problem i felt
that i had
was that i accepted and was seduced
by the story that hollywood had been
putting out for decades
specifically of filmmakers of our
generation it was the 90s the 90s when
the 90s showed up oh yeah that was when
independent film as we know it today was
kind of
born the whole sundance movement the the
robert rodriguez yes
mike slackers and dykes and yeah spike
and kevin
and gomez guys yeah all of those guys
yeah so all of those guys they're so
like it's hard for people to understand
but at that time in history
it almost felt like every month there
was a new lottery ticket being handed
out
there was another new filmmaker being
anointed that
story that lottery ticket is what
i i fell into that trap and when this
guy jimmy showed up i'm like oh my god
this is my lottery ticket and then when
i'm sitting across away from
big movie stars i'm like this has this
has to be it like this is my this is the
[ __ ]
so then i would have to like let me just
put up with this a little bit longer
all right so you thought like the the
abuse if you will was just a means to
that
and that goes what i was saying you know
about the dreams because
it in one sentence you know you you say
like your dream
to direct films and it hasn't really
wavered but
it's what it's all the surrounding stuff
that i think people get sucked in by
it's morphs you know the face and the
money and all that
so they think like i want to be a
director but do they
people don't really think through
especially when they're young because
who thinks through anything when you're
young
but they connect the directing to the
fame and the money i'm
totally guilty of it myself that's where
the jealousy comes from
for filmmakers that compare themselves
to other people this guy's more famous
than i am
the dream mentally feels like i'm gonna
be a director i'm focused on that
but you still kind of lose sight of what
that really means you know and being a
you know sucked up into that like you
said you think you're
living the dream but then it turns into
something other than that
and then your mind has to you know talk
about mental health your mind then has
to reconcile
all of that stuff wait a minute this is
supposed to be the dream
dreams are supposed to be good well well
uh two things
one uh we've all been the angry bitter
filmmaker
and i always tell people when i do a
talk i'll uh you know or lecture or
something i'll go everybody here
um does everybody here know an angry and
bitter filmmaker and everyone you know
raise their hand away and if you didn't
raise your hand i hate to tell you but
you're the angry and bitter filmmaker
that everybody else knows
right um and it's it's absolutely the
truth
so i would get that i would and i was
angry and i was so angry and bitter for
such a long time
because when you only have the one thing
that you're holding on to
if that one thing doesn't work exactly
the way you want you feel much more
competitive you feel much more this or
that
like with my podcast perfect example you
know i've been in the podcast game now
for five years
and there's been a lot of podcasts that
come and go and i know other pi
i know most of the podcasters in our
space and filmmaking and screenwriting
and
a lot of them feel competitive with me
mm-hmm and and they're totally stranded
with you i'm not kidding and we can talk
about it because i want to be honest
about it
i absolutely feel competitive with you
and i [ __ ]
hate it i hate it but but the thing is
this and the reason why
and look i feel do you think i don't
feel competitive sometimes against other
others i mean we're humans it's human
nature joe rogan just sold his damn
podcast for like
150 million dollars are you kidding me
don't like joe rogan either because he's
you know and or tim ferriss who gets you
know three four hundred thousand
podcast downloads yeah you know like you
know half a million podcast downloads
per episode like
i'm not rolling that deep my friend
right i i don't know if what you think
but i'm not rolling that deep yeah
right not even close so yes there's
always a little bit of a competitive
nature and that's fine that's healthy
it pushes the work too it pushes the
world okay it pushes you it pushes you
to go
so that's why i always tell people uh
you might be better than me
you you might be more talented than me
but you will not outwork me
and and i've proven that and then some
sure you know so like
if everybody and sometimes some some
we're we're friends now but a
podcasting friend of mine he would say
you know alex i'm thinking of doing two
podcast episodes a week like you are i'm
like if you do two i'll do three
and if you do three i'll do four and
don't mess with me because i'll do two a
day
so now i have like i literally have five
podcasts that i do
on a weekly basis weekly or bi-weekly
basis i have five
full-time podcasts that i'm working on
well i'm not coming for that
yeah exactly and and and that's fine but
the
the reason why i don't feel so
competitive i used to
when i first came up like there was guys
who were around
much longer than me and i would check i
would check traffic i would check their
blogs
i used to do all that but then i just
started to venture out of that and to
start focusing more on me
and keeping an eye out on what other
people are doing always
but always just focus on what i'm doing
and just kind of put my head to the
grindstone and just kind of keep
keep going and because the podcast is
not my only thing
you know if i'm not killing it on the
podcast
front i've got other things that i'm
doing and if i'm not like if
that's what and i think and i just
honestly have come up with this as we're
talking about this i've never
even thought about this in this manner
but it's because i have so many
you know plates spinning that if one
comes crashing down i'm
good if two or three come crashing down
mentally i'm okay and then i'll get i'll
get that one going back up again but i
already got another 10 go
right so if i'm if i'm an author
and i have one book and that is all i
have to do
if that book fails your mental health
will go to [ __ ]
if you have one movie and you've been on
that movie for two years
and you get it you get it out there and
it fails
your your mental stability will crumble
mm-hmm it's happening it's the
process of how do you get to that place
you know and that's why i was asking
like i said you alluded to it by like
it came from if i'll do seven things at
once
if one of them doesn't go i don't have
to crawl up into a ball and say i'm a
total failure
i still have all these other things i
need to pay attention to and that's
[ __ ] that's
between you and me i really appreciate
that answer because
it's not like if you don't if you don't
get out of bed in the morning
you can still do something to further
your personal project in some way
correct
something even if you're not sitting and
writing for two hours or
you know for me it's like if i can just
be somewhat and that came for me born
out of working on a documentary for
seven years
and i knew it was there going to be a
really long timeline i was like if i can
do
something anything if it's if it's
retouch one photo
if it's right one log line if it's you
know
just even opening final cut to just look
at something
i accomplished something today and that
has value
so right but it's that process to get to
the place that gets you off your ass
that really interests me because it's
really hard for some people
me included to actually do that some
days it's like i
want to get off my ass i want to do
something
but i just i'm just not feeling up to it
today
and you got to do that for you you know
define it for yourself so i'll give you
two answers
one for me to get up to do indie film
hustle every day
it can't be about money because money
would only go so far
that's not enough of an of an engine a
gasoline in the engine to keep that
engine going
what i love is being of service to
filmmakers
and being serviced to my audience
whatever that audience might be
if i can be of help and be of service to
somebody else and help somebody else on
their path that's what
drives me every morning that's the
gasoline in the engine
and because of that it's very easy for
me to get up
at 4 30 or 5 o'clock every morning come
in
and start working and and then clock out
at six
so i can be with my family and have that
freedom that one thing
has been the driving force behind what i
do with indie film hustle
because when i launched a new film
hustle don't get me wrong it's a
business this is a business
i have to ha i have to be able to make
some money i have to be able to survive
i have to be able to do what i do
because
95 of what i do is free right
it's free most of the content which is
an obscene amount of content that i put
on a daily basis
is free so i need to be able to make
this a functional business
if not this doesn't work i can't do this
anymore and i can't provide you i'm sure
your wife said the same exact thing
my wife was my wife believe it or not is
she's like one of my greatest champions
because she was the one that gave me
the the strength and the support for
those first
couple years where i wasn't doing it
full-time
and i was still doing posts and things
like that but she's like just keep going
keep going i know what you this is gonna
go somewhere go
go go go because she trusts me and she
knew she knows what i'm capable of
so that support to the point where i
finally turned to her i'm like i think i
could stop doing post now she's like i
think you can
now keep going it's great it's like go
go to have a champion like sometimes you
know the voices get really loud and it's
it's you know not all of us have you
know wives and and
and you know yes agreed i've been very
blessed with that um
and don't get me wrong it hasn't been
peaches and cream the entire time
um of course it's a marriage so that's
the way that's the way marriages go
right
but to go specifically about getting up
to make a movie or get up to do
something because oh god you know this
movie just sold at sundance i was
40 years old when i made this is meg
which is my first feature film i was
attached to another project with a big
screenwriter and a big producer and i
was casting already believe it or not i
was casting the film already and then
fell apart again it was 40.
and i just sat one day and i looked in
at myself and i just said
you're 40 years old dude tomorrow you're
going to be 65
and you're going to still be chasing
this giant mountain that you've created
in your head
because the first feature has to be
reservoir dogs
it's got to be mariachis got to be
clerks it's got to be
sexualized and videotape it's gotta be
she's gotta have it's gotta be something
that explodes
in the filmmaking space because that's
the ego talking so it has to be that and
that's what i kept telling myself so
that's what the excuse it was but the
bottom line was i was terrified of doing
it
i was scared because the technology to
make a feature had been around
10 years earlier i could have made this
on a dvx-100a
shot the damn thing and put it out i
could have i could have shot it
i could have gotten enough money to go
shoot on suit on 16 or super 16
and made something happen with 30 40 000
i could have done something like that
but i was terrified because
what if i fail what if it doesn't make
the money that i needed to be what if
what if what if because your ego
because your entire your entire mental
structure is wrapped around
the success of the feature
which is like we've talked already on
this episode is
extremely dangerous yeah
for yourself so i just said i'm like i'm
gonna go shoot a movie
and i'm gonna shoot it in a month so i
decided to go the opposite complete
opposite direction i'm like you know
what
i don't care what happens i put no
expectations on the movie that was a
catalyst i was like i'm going to be i'm
going to wake up tomorrow i'm going to
be 70.
and i'm going to still be chasing this
damn dream being an angry and bitter
filmmaker this is not
this i can't do this so i had already
been doing
in the film hustle for two years at that
post 2017. so i was like you know what
and be having it i know it sounds weird
but having indie film hustle
made me feel so much more comfortable
because i said you know what if it
and i wasn't making a that wasn't my
full-time gig yet if it doesn't work out
i always have indefinite hustle to go
back to
that's that was that was the back that
was my back-up plan
so for me mentally what i told the story
i told myself is like
go make a movie if it doesn't work out
it's an experiment
you'll share your experience with your
audience and we'll move forward and
you'll learn more about it and that was
it
i let go of all the crap that i was
hanging on to for 20 odd years
i let go of it and because i let go of
it i was free because i did not
want to give my mind time to talk myself
out of it sure that was a very big thing
i'm not going to focus
on i'm just going to just i'm just going
to and then i'm going to publicly state
it
now i'm screwed so i used my audience to
to help me get through it because i was
like you know i just put it i'm like hey
we're making a movie oh shoot i can't
i can't pull back i gotta go forward
with it and that's exactly what i did
and because of that i was able to make
this movie and that movie was sold to
hulu
not for seven million um
[Music]
you got money you made a thing and you
got money i got a little bit of money
it's a it's a tad below 7 million
um and was sold overseas uh we
crowdfunded it so i was in the black
before we even
released it we made the movie for about
5 000 bucks or so
the whole movie and uh it's it's still
making money now we're profitable with
it we've been profitable with it
from the moment we launched it so for me
i was just like let's see what happens
well we'll go do this oh we'll go do
that all right let's do this i was so
i let it all go and it world premiered
at cinequest
so which is no small shakes either i
mean it's just no it wasn't
a big deal yes and the quest was a big
deal it will premiere there
and and then i did a little bit of a
festival tour as well with my film
and it was great it was it was a
wonderful experience it was wonderful
experience and
and it worked out great but i i was able
to
change the narrative in my head and i
want your audience to understand this
and you've probably
spoken about this before but i'll i'll
reiterate it right now
do you have to understand that your
brain your mind does not care about your
dreams
it does not care an ounce
about how you make it if you make it
what you make it the only purpose that
your brain
is there to do is to keep you alive sure
protect you survival
yes that is what we are programmed to be
yeah so
we are still programmed with the concept
of don't go
down past the river because there might
be a tiger around the corner
that's why we don't like change that's
why we don't like the unknown
because there could be danger around
that corner
and until you walk around that corner
and you see everything's okay
then your brain goes okay around that
corner is cool but be careful with that
next corner
right that's the equivalent of us the
feature film the feature film
or the book or the song or the album or
painting or whatever it is that you're
trying to do as an artist or as a
creative or as a business person
whatever
is unknown so your brain will talk you
out of it
yeah it will create problems for you
because it's
safer to not put yourself out there
if you're worried about critics ruining
your stuff
yes i'm just trying to make anything
nobody can
criticize me if i don't make anything
but that's the equivalent of the tiger
sure
because we're not physically in harm
most of the time
we're more emotionally harmed than
anything else or mentally harmed
by critics or things not going right or
our emotions
it's there to protect us it's there to
keep us alive
and it doesn't care about your dreams it
doesn't care that you saw et
when you were in second grade and want
to be a director now
they don't care it doesn't care right so
when you understand that your brain is
not your friend
in this avenue of your life you can
learn
how to navigate it right is it a perfect
art
no i mean am i human it's always listen
doesn't mean we have all these answers
unknown [ __ ] absolutely of course every
day there's look we're in the middle of
the greatest unknown right now
it is it's thrown the entire that's why
everyone's so mentally
straight because at any literally now at
every corner
there's a tiger it's exhausting which
could it's exhausting because at every
corner there could be someone who could
give you the virus
and if you get the virus you could give
it to somebody else
and all of that so now we're constantly
in a state of fear and anxiety as
a society the way i put it is and
somebody had told me this
earlier because like i said my
documentaries a personal movie about my
father who was a drug addict
and you know i have a couple of other
like i
i always felt that like i don't know if
i could tell
someone else's story and i was actually
talking to another filmmaker his name is
charlie terrell
he directed a little short um that got
nominated for an oscar
my dead dad's porno tapes and he's had
some couple of movies in
at south by and i think sundance as well
and he's great short filmmaker from
canada
and i was talking to him after um you
know we connected
and he was and i i asked him because he
had me like i said his short was about
his father as well
and i was like how do you make something
else how do you make little
you know other things and he goes
sometimes the stakes don't need to be so
high
right and that really really
clicked into my head i think he said to
me probably about a year ago at this
time
maybe a little bit more and it clicked
into my head and it sounds like it was
the same thing that kind of happened to
you when you decided to go do this as
meg
when we're sitting and we're in fear and
our brain is is doing everything in its
power to
knock us down and you know why like
like everything that keeps us from doing
something
i told my like the stakes don't need to
be so high like if this movie doesn't
you know make it and again that goes
back to the dreams thing too you have to
have confidence in exactly what you're
looking to get out of this
career if you're looking to get famous
from being a director
then you're you're doomed you're you are
you're basically asking
for a lottery ticket as a career and
it's it's all about
lowering the stakes and being like well
i can do the things that i want to do
and if it doesn't go i'll just do
something else
i'll just go make another one like it's
not that big a thing
and that's and from that moment on
because of what i've been able to build
out with indie film hustle is now i have
all these other plates spinning
that if the movie that i'm working on
doesn't go the way i wanted to it's all
good
it's all good like when i made my second
film on the corner of ego and desire
that's a psychotic film it's a psychotic
film to try to go make
are you going to go shoot a film sure
that's the sec
and i was going to ask you about that
too i mean not only like what we're
dealing with trying to get off our ass
to do something
but you also decided to do something
that listen after you shoot for a day
and you go
hit that you know hit the sack at night
how are you not pulling your hair
out of every thing you know and just
being like what the heck am i doing
so that you know the mental health thing
isn't just getting off your ass to do
something
it's dealing with all the insanity of a
film production happening around you as
well
oh i mean look so if for people who
don't know about underground reveal
desire
that's a film i made for my tribe i made
a film about three filmmakers
going to sundance chasing a producer
trying to sell their film
so i wanted to kind of put a real
filmmaking like an indie filmmaking
movie out there and there's some amazing
movies about the filmmaking process
but i've never seen a movie about trying
to sell a movie
the realities of trying to sell a movie
and the insanity and the ego
and the the tropes of the documentary
it's essentially of being a filmmaker
and then i also had a female director as
my
lead which i had never seen in a film
before and there was and then
no one's ever shot a narrative at the
sundance film festival before
because you have to be crazy to do
something like that i mean that's
insanity we just ran around sundance and
shot this movie
again with a scriptment so we improved
all of our our lines for the most part i
think there's some dialogue
but generally speaking when i wrote it
it was all mostly just outlined and then
i sat down with the actors
and and just worked out scenes and we
shot
everything i mean i can't say i didn't
care what would happen i
knew because of my experience and
because of what i've done in the past
that i knew i would get something
right this was going to be a really nice
something i don't know what it was going
to be but it was going to be something
you just had to lower the stakes a
little bit it's not
well i mean it was just there was no
stings yeah it's like if it don't go it
don't go
it's it's a 3 000 it would cost me 3 000
bucks so it's a 3 000
feature film shot at sundance but i it's
coming from a good place i really wanted
to kind of
point a spotlight on this
aspect of the filmmaking process and to
be true like really true
and raw about it and every stupid thing
i did every
dumb thing i ever heard someone else do
they were all incorporated into these
characters
we had the director we had the actor and
we had the producer so i wanted them all
in there
and and them chasing around and all the
stupidity and all the craziness of
of sundance we shot it in four days
about 30 we figured out about 36 hours
of total
production time because i was still
doing interviews for the podcast
he was there wow so i was out i was
making i was making dates
i was i was making the movie on the side
it was a side hustle but the movie was a
side hustle
when i finished i saw footage come in as
i was downloading
it you know it's not but i didn't like
watch it like i didn't feel time to
watch it right were you the d i t too
you're in your hotel room tonight you're
the one copying the car
just so everybody knows i shot this on
the blackmagic pocket camera
1080p first generation not the 4k not
the 6k
1080p which is another reason i wanted
to do it i wanted to shut everybody up
i'm like you don't need
12k right you know and it looks like i
say the same unless you're doing visual
effects you don't
you just don't and by the way we did
visual effects we did some cleanup work
it was fine
so then i i was shocked because i
actually
we had a screening at the the chinese
theater in hollywood
and i did a dcp and i'd never seen the
but when i came up i'm like is this
gonna look like complete crap i have no
idea
it looks stunning yeah it was gorgeous
yeah it was gorgeous
one of those two it was one of the most
beautiful
things i've ever shot it was great great
and so i did all of that
and i put it out there but when we were
packing up and we were ready to go
i told everybody i'm like i don't know
if we have a movie here i have no idea
i think we do and most people would be
terrified
i wasn't i was like okay we'll figure it
out
i was just so like okay because it
didn't cost me three hundred thousand
dollars right like if it's a three
hundred thousand dollar movie
i would not have investors that's why
like i like to you know i like to either
self i don't like to sell fund
but i you know half of my movie was
self-funded the rest was crowdfunded
i don't want if i don't have to to have
investors because now you're answering
to the people with the money
absolutely and that's another layer of
stress that you just
don't need so you make something for
three grand if it don't go it don't go
hey don't go
it's fine and people were like what the
hell where did this come from
but then it took it took me two years to
release it because
the first year i waited a whole year for
because you wanted to get into sundance
the next year of course
we have to like if i'm going to have a
shot with a movie it's going to be that
see now that's your mission the next one
needs to be shot at sundance and
premiere at that same festival you got
to get upset
but i did premiere but i was i was lucky
enough to world premiere at the rain
dance film festival in england also
not no small which was a huge huge deal
for
for the film i was so happy with that
film and i love the film it's one of the
most
beautiful things i've ever done it's the
most uh pure
expression of who i am wow that's good
it's i'm it's it's me and by the way i'm
also in it
they have to meet a podcaster so i was
like well i'll also i'll be myself why
wouldn't i
so then i do a prices real plug it's
exactly and i'm gonna be there and i'd
have to pay me so it's great
it was a great experience but again i'd
let go a hundred percent
i let go when i write my books when i
wrote shooting for the mob
i was like let's hope let's see what
happens when i wrote rise for the film
entrepreneur which was my second book
let's see what happens i didn't
everything's not on
is not invested in that one thing and
because that's the case
it could be a bad thing it could be a
good thing i don't know how you look at
it
i do care about it and i do want it to
do well and i do put energy into
everything i do
sure but it's not the only thing so if i
make a
i write a book i do a podcast i i write
write a blog article i build a website
if it doesn't go
right away or doesn't go at all i'm okay
i got a thousand
i've got next two years literally lined
up for myself sure
that i've got so much to do i don't have
time to worry about
something i just created it's kind of
like the ridley scott
way of doing movies because he's he just
doesn't care at all about what anybody
thinks and that doesn't mean you don't
care about the project itself
it just it's not the make or break thing
to you
you know and i think that and i'm glad
we talked about it too because like i
was saying when i was like
you know originally pushing back on like
the whole like just do it
mentality of what indie film hustle is
and i remember i remember being
the angry jealous filmmaker at the
beginning this [ __ ] just tells
people
just do it i can't get out of bed
sometimes because i'm just worried you
know and
but if you think of it as if you think
of just doing it
as working on stuff that makes you happy
and not necessarily just doing it and
going and making something that you need
to sell to hulu
then you can have those plates it's not
juggling all these projects that you're
trying to
sell and make and do all that i mean
that's got a part of it too
but just having enough of your own
internal
like you know studio charnock studio
ferrari i have
these things here that i'm working on so
that
you know when they finally do get to the
point where something can go out to the
world
or work on something for the world we'll
cross that bridge when we get to it
but the just do it is is finding that
the meaning of these projects for
yourself and defining that for yourself
and not letting someone else tell you
that
you know you're doing it and then when
you get you know when you do that
then you can juggle all those plates and
they're your plates they're not someone
else's plates at that point
so you right like if one plate breaks
hey i still have six of my own plates to
eat on
that one plate's not that big a deal but
it doesn't mean you don't love that
plate
you know that plate was personal to you
but you have this other stuff that can
get you through as well it all depends
on like i i interviewed so many people
on my show over the years and i've
interviewed so many filmmakers so i have
a really
unique perspective because i've
interviewed
giant directors personalities all over
the place
and i've and i've interviewed the you
know the guy who just made a three
thousand dollar movie
uh and is trying to sell it on amazon
right like i've i've gotten everything
in between
the thing i've noticed is that even the
big guys
they they they all feel the same way man
they're just at a different place so
they still have imposter syndrome they
still have issues they're just a little
bit wiser they might have a little bit
more experience
but they still deal with stuff like that
henry fonda he would go out on stage
right before he goes on on stage
on doing a play he would throw up
because he was nervous
right and it's like it's henry fonda
oscar winning you're gonna find a legend
he was a legend as an actor and yet he
still got nervous going on stage
right so it's for everybody it's like
that
sure and i've heard what you said about
robin williams too i mean he's the
perfect example of it you know
and and we don't just and and it's kind
of one of the things i want to have with
the show too
is it's so easy to see other people's
experiences in other people's lives and
it's you know like i said it's almost
natural to
to want that but you have to fight
yourself against it and and
and that helps you find like it really
just helps you focus what you really
want out of this business
because if you have all these other
voices you know telling you what you
think you want
then you get you know something like
henry fonda or robin williams
like wait a minute this doesn't make
sense he should have it all
but you don't realize what people you
know you don't realize the their
their own mental journey can i i want to
i wanted to say something in regards to
i think this is another illness that we
have as filmmakers a mental illness that
we have as filmmakers
is that we look at our idols spielberg
scorsese cameron
kubrick whatever name name the legend
or living legend fincher nolan these
kind of directors that we all look up to
um for one way shape or form and if our
path is filmmakers doesn't walk one of
their paths
exactly a lot of times we feel like
we're failures
so like for the longest time i wa like
well spielberg didn't have to do
you know a podcast like spielberg didn't
have to like
do tutorials and sell them on dvds like
that's not what he did but he might have
if that technology would have been
around and at those times but those were
different times because you didn't
i mean yeah i mean well you got to be
true to yourself is the number one thing
if you're not
like it's don't you know don't try to
you know shove the the round peg in the
square hole
and again it all goes back to like i
said the confidence
in your own dreams and knowing what you
want
out of this business as a career
and you know if you can stay hyper
focused to that i mean
it's a it's it's it can be a fight
sometimes
but if you can really know what you want
to do out of this business i don't i
honestly don't think
you can be disappointed i don't care if
my movie makes
twenty thousand or two hundred thousand
i'll log into amazon
and check on you know my movies got a
you know north american distribution so
i put it on amazon prime uk
myself and i look at the numbers so i
check in every i know every day or so
just you know i'm just i'm sitting
around i got nothing to do let me check
the numbers
and you know and it's low i'll see like
1500 minutes of my movie so i'm like
that's really only like 11 or 12 people
but they watched it
they watched my movie and that's all i
really want and that's why i get upset
at myself
for getting distracted by the fame and
distracted
by the competition and distracted by all
this because sometimes i hit the you
know
my head hits the pillow at night and i'm
like some random person in the uk
watched my movie about my oh yeah man oh
yeah you know i'm gonna get
a cent out of that from amazon it
doesn't pay the mortgage but it makes me
happy
you have to define happiness for
yourself absolutely whatever that
whatever that is absolutely and that is
a huge difference you have to
define that happiness for yourself
i defined it myself it took me a while
to get it right but i've defined it and
it's
and it's gradual and it's still ever
evolving oh yeah we're not there yet
dude when i wrote shooting for the mob i
had never written a book
i never considered myself a novelist or
a non-fiction writer or a
i never the definition of who i am as a
human being there never once was like oh
i'm an author
that writes books that was never uh
there was just nothing there until i
finally said i have to tell the story
and i and this book is going to help
people if it helps a few people
out by reading it to get out of bad
situations
to stand up for themselves to define
that happiness for themselves and not
put up
with abuse sure then it's worth it but
shooting for the mob has a very
emotional
place for me so much so that when i
started i started to do the audio book
i stopped midway because it was so
difficult emotionally
to go back there sure then i wrote an
entire other book
did the audio book for that other book
and then went back and did my audio book
for shooting for the mom and finished it
up finally but
now that's that's part of who i am
before i was just a director
and after that i only considered myself
a director
i didn't consider myself a man a husband
a boyfriend uh a father there's
a lot of labels that you put on yourself
and
when my entire identity was wrapped up
as just a director well when that didn't
go well guess what happened to my
identity
it got it got pummeled sure and that
happened again and again and again
like when i was going through the whole
you know shooting for the mob thing
i was a director and when that wasn't i
was i was depressed
for a year while i was doing it and i
was probably depressed
clinically for about a year and a half
two years after that it took me a long
time to come out of it
and it took me a long time before i
could shoot again did you see anyone
were you seeing anything were you in
therapy or doing anything
i i might have seen one person i think i
saw one
one doctor once and that was it uh but i
did speak to some people
on a more regular basis during that time
and it helped
sure i recommend it to like you know
just to get stuff even if it's just
venting to a professional who knows how
to work in that environment
it helps yeah it helps i was just not a
i was just not
equipped for the experience i wasn't
equipped for the aftermath i just wasn't
equipped
and it because of that that's that's the
beginning
of i would say a little bit earlier but
that was like the biggest
shrapnel i received at that point in my
career so
i started to build up that armor and
that's what we were talking about at the
beginning too
you know i mean like it's all about like
these things come in time
you know i mean hopefully not 20 years
for experience and time
but it's yeah experience you know you
put in that time you put in that effort
you're going to learn things along the
way and you have to incorporate that
into
you know just your own mental state did
you did you know that
michael bay as whether you love him or
hate him
he was obsessed with james cameron
obsessed with james cameron he was so
obsessed that he bought digital domains
from james cameron
because he wanted to be james cameron so
bad
he made pearl harbor hoping it would be
his titanic
he wanted to go down the james cameron
path
so bad and i wanted to bring that up
because even someone as accomplished
as michael bay who was one of the
biggest commercial directors
in the world making 50 to 75
000 a day just to direct the commercial
if not more he still didn't think what
he was doing was enough that he needed
and wanted his in his mind he would only
get success
if he could do what james cameron did
but he was so he says basically what you
and i go through
but at a much sure bigger larger scale
you got to figure out that one's got to
figure that out on their own there
really is no question
you shouldn't be abused in this business
but you will have to do [ __ ] work
sure and you will have to pay your dues
that's
that's part of this process absolutely
okay uh either if you're making your own
movie or you're working on your way up
as a pa
or you're working in an office somewhere
or whatever it is you're going to do
you're going to have to eat some crow
there's no question that's part of any
business you're going to have to start
from the bottom
if that's the mail room that's the mail
room and try not to take things too
i mean if they get personalized but just
it ain't personal
you know it's it's this is a career you
know like
like i said if you wanted to be a hobby
it's a hobby but if you're going to have
a career
you got to act as a professional so we
don't want abuse but at the same time
you have to know
that you're going to have to do things
you don't want to do to get to the next
step in your career and i think that's a
lot of thing with the young filmmakers
and stuff especially in the micro budget
space where you're doing your own thing
and you don't really have anyone else to
answer to which is great we love that
but if you then want it to be a career
you've got to learn how to treat it like
any other
career but it's a business yeah it's a
business yeah so let me ask you one last
question i'm going to let you go
um you said you had like seven plates
spinning
at any one time and you know and you're
rocking and rolling with with with the
you know ego and desire and meg and your
books and the puck and all that stuff
what do you do to get away from this
what do you do to take a break what do
you do to de-stress
and not let you know if you're doing two
podcasts a week you gotta get it out i
just wanna go watch a ball game what do
you do
you know to get away from the business
to get away from things and re-center
yourself and find some peace
my family's a good is a good um
balancing for me
you know spending time with them just
decompressing watching
a tv show or you know going on vacation
which again
not so much nowadays but you know just
kind of decompressing in that way
the funny thing is that the stress that
i have in my business
is mine i created that stress i created
all of it right
so it's not a boss yelling at me or
someone telling me what to do so it's a
little bit different
so if i if i see that something is
extremely stressful
i created that so i can stop it so if a
podcast is creating too much stress to
me like you know i can't do
i can't do seven podcasts in a day it's
just too much
i i don't do it so i have a good um
way to kind of dial back my stress in
the business don't get me wrong i
you don't worry about losing listeners
or something like if you promise a show
like i'll promise a show and then i
don't finish it and maybe i get it out
like
instead of thursday i get it out on
tuesday of the next week i feel bad
because i promise something
but in the same like i try not to worry
about losing listeners or whatever
because i want to do it for myself
look i you can't you you can't
worry about losing listeners because i
just i could see the numbers
so some episodes are more downloaded
than others somewhere or listened to
than others
um then some explode i'm like well where
are all these guys on these other things
like obviously there there's someone
subscribed but they didn't want to
listen to that episode for whatever
reason
so i can't i just do me i just
okay just like you know what i do and
something guess what some days
i i don't make my deadline some days i
don't
post a podcast when i'm supposed to post
the podcast and you know what the world
doesn't come to an end
that's what i keep trying to tell um
yeah the world doesn't come to an end
and if anyone ever complains about it
which no one ever has right you don't
know right yeah
dude i put out five a week you said shut
up
like i'm doing the best i can you said
thursday and it's friday
where's my free podcast right
is that you know like come on man
seriously like if
you know if you don't like it go listen
to the other 500 episodes i have
like did you go through all those
already god bless
all right it's a great attitude to have
you know there's there's always
something look
there's i got so much content that i've
created over the last five years
so many different you know platforms and
things that i've created
if i missed a podcast i'm like i don't
feel bad anymore i'm like dude i put i
do so much work
i i'm i'm good it doesn't it doesn't
bother me but in all honesty i really
get a tremendous amount of enjoyment
doing what i do now
it is very fulfilling um mentally
spiritually uh emotionally it all
really gels to what i'm doing and if
anything i'm just driven
to do more i feel like i slack i feel
like i'm not doing enough
but that's the that's the nature of an
entrepreneur it's like uh all you all
you see
is this right but all i see is what i'm
not doing right
exactly that's that's the difference
between like from looking out for me
there's a five podcast he's got a
podcast neck where he's got books yeah
they don't just
pop out like yeah like and for me i'm
like yeah but
i'm not doing that thing i'm doing that
thing that i have down the line i want
to write this next book that
and wait till you see what i do with
that it's a constant
constant state of what's next i've got
the next three or four books lined up
already it's great um that i'm gonna
write you know so i'm planning to
write this book i'm finishing up a
distribution course that i've been doing
for my
my educational platform ifh academy so
when that's done then i'm gonna focus on
my book
and then i got to do another course and
then it's just
i i never am not busy right and it's all
sell and the wonderful thing about it is
i control it
so i can turn it on or off as much as i
want
i can just take the day off if i want to
and
and the business keeps running because i
built a business that allowed my hobby
to now pay me and become a professional
at doing what i do
for me i'm i'm really happy i've like
found this wonderful
place in my life that i'm extremely
comfortable
and do i want to do more things yes do i
want to make a marvel movie i don't know
i'll take the meeting right that's the
thing that's really one i
really want to get across to people is
you know just trying to get started in
this business you got to do it for you
like you said you know it's been like i
said we've just been different ways of
saying it but it's got to be for you
and i'll quote steve jobs with this he's
like if you wake up in the morning
looking yourself in the mirror and hate
what you're doing that day
you need to figure something else out
and you've got if you're
in a place that you're not happy with
right now figure out
a way to build something that gets you
out
of where you're not happy with and it's
going to take time it's not going to be
something that's going to be overnight
i ate a lot of crow i worked with a lot
of clients i did a lot of jobs that i
did not want to do
because of the money right because i
needed to pay the bills
but if you don't have a strategy to get
yourself out with a side hustle
or building a business or going down
another career path or figuring out
another way to make money within that
same career
that you're happier with if you don't
have a plan you are just going to be
miserable after the rest of your career
and i was
miserable for a long time even when i
controlled
my post house even when i had all i felt
all the control that i could just say no
to whoever but i didn't say no because i
needed the money
so it was a little bit of more of a kind
of like a fake
control that i had right it was
illusions it was an illusion that i kept
the story i told in my head just to get
up in the morning every day
just just to just get up and do what i
did i
hated some of the jobs i did hated it
but that's how you find out what you
love
is to do and you know sometimes and
again throughout the process
you do things you don't like to do so
you realize i don't want to do that
thing again
you know and i guess i'll wrap it up
with this too because one of the other
things that like i'm trying to get
across to
you know to young filmmakers they think
directing a movie is the thing
be all and end all and and if i don't do
that but like
you can still get a job but like we did
like we i i
you know went and get got a job as a pa
or a post pa
and and i can use that to pay my bills
and i can still enjoy doing
it you know people think i want to be a
director but like there's all these
other things out there that you can do
in this business
that'll make you creatively fulfilled
that'll pay the bills
so you something you go and need to do
things that you don't like
so you discover what you do like and
then stay on that path but again some of
those things just go with time
it's time and it's and i i'll leave with
this
this is definitely a marathon not a
sprint
you don't have a one-year plan you have
a 10-year plan and if you don't
understand this
get out again people
you know you're going to want to do this
until you're 70. yeah and exactly
absolutely
like i i want to like as of right now
which will change
but as of right now where i'm at i can
keep doing what i'm doing
in one way shape or form helping people
and and being of service to people for
the rest of my life that is my
calling i love doing it and when i say
that i also mean as an artist
making my movies by telling the stories
i want to tell but by also creating
these platforms and
and you know building out other
platforms maybe in other arenas that are
not filmmaking based
you know and continue to grow as a human
as an individual as a soul as a person
to find what my mission is here and what
i'm trying to do
and the more people i help the better i
feel i'm very addictive and very
very greedy that way that's great i feel
good helping other people if you can
and i know you feel the same way it's
rare sometimes in our business but
that's that's what i live by
yeah and if you if you could if if you
help people
i promise you and this is this is the
last thing and then we'll cut it off
the last thing is if you help somebody
else help follow their dream
you the doors that open up for you are
magical i
struggled for 20 odd years chasing this
directing dream of directing a feature
film
i only achieved that dream and so many
other things
the second i started giving back the
second i started giving back to my
community and started giving back to
people being of service to people
is when the doors swung open for me and
now i get to talk to people
and make connections with people that i
would never in a million years
be able to contact or have access to but
because of what i do on a daily basis
it gives me the opportunity and the
privilege to talk to these people to
make these connections
to uh get these opportunities that i
would have never had and it all started
with being of service to somebody else
so that's what i would like to leave
with
that is outstanding those are definitely
words to live by
that's that's what we believe in here at
the show that's what i believe in
personally it's great to hear that from
you alex ferrari indie film hustle this
is meg
on the corner of ego and desire we're
gonna put all these links
in the show notes thank you so much for
being on the show i loved talking with
you this was fantastic
i can't wait until we do it again
sometime best wishes to you and your
family for health
and happiness in this crazy new world
that we live in
and i hope we can do it again real soon
thank you man thank you so much for
having me on the show and thank you for
doing what you do as well i mean you are
providing a hell of a service to
creatives out there uh talking about
mental health and talking about
getting about just dealing with this
this crazy crazy business that we're in
the world that we need but thank you so
much and and uh be well stay safe and
safe travel
you as well i'll talk to you soon thanks
a lot