# Exported by Aegisub 3.2.2
Hi,
this is Jason Charnick and welcome\Nto Head Above Water, a new podcast,
not just about filmmaking,
but about how to find some peace and\Nhappiness in this crazy topsy turvy world
of the entertainment industry\Nand filmmaking and movie\Nmaking and all of that
fun stuff. Show business if you will.
We have a very exciting\Nguest for you guys today.
We'll be speaking with Anna Keizer,\Nwho's a dear friend of mine.
We used to work together at a\Nproduction company many years ago.
I'm very excited to be on board.\NHer latest project, it's called,
she had a coming,
I'll be editing and it's a short film\Nthat she wrote and is the executive
producer on. So we're going to\Ntalk about that a little bit,
but we're also gonna talk\Nabout crowdfunding and it's\Nnot going to be your usual
crowd funding conversation.
It's not going to be about how to find\Npeople to give to your campaign or how to
build outreach and stuff like\Nthat. You guys can, you know,
find that kind of information\Nin a million other places.
But when you're having a crowd funding\Ncampaign, it's also very stressful time.
Every day is you know,
a lot of work trying to see if you can\Nget the money that you need to make the
project that you want.
And it can be very stressful and\Nthere's a lot of ins and outs to that.
So we're going to talk to Anna about\Nher latest crowdfunding campaign for she
had it coming and what it was like to\Nrun her first crowdfunding campaign and
the things that kept her up at night and\Nthe things that she is concerned with.
And uh, hopefully you guys, uh, have some\Ninterest in hearing about that. Also,
I'd like to remind you guys that the\Nwonderful music you guys are listening to
today is from the wonderful\Ncomposer Jason David White.
You can check him out on\NSoundCloud at Jason David White.
This episode is also brought to you\Nby upstart film, collective upstart.
We can make DCP's to rock your world.
So if you're looking for\Na DCP for your movie,
please feel free to get in touch with me.
I make all my DCPS for all my projects\Nhere in house and I'd like to help you
out with your project as well.
So drop me a line and let's see if we\Ncan make it happen. And until then,
enjoy Anna Keizer. Enjoy this\Nweek's episode and stay tuned.
We have some really fun guests\Ncoming up in the future,
so we hope you guys join us for future\Nepisodes ahead above water and we'll see
you on the other side.\NThanks a lot. Enjoy the show.
We're excited to talk to you.
I'm excited to talk to you. Thank you\Nfor having me in your home and being on,
on the show and um, yeah,
we'll just have a good time with it\Nand see where things go and just have a
blast. Absolutely. I'm very\Nexcited. So I wanted to ask, so,
so I am editing your picture right\Nnow, which is, she had it coming.
We'll let you plug it later. I'll probably\Nplug it too since I am working on it.
And all that.
But you just finished your\Nfirst ever crowdfunding for it.
I did. So let me ask you this. So,
well let's, let's jump back a little bit.
So you've been a writer for how long now?
I have been a screenwriter, emerging,\Naspiring, whatever you want to say.
Screenwriter for gosh, a\Ndecade. Okay. And this is your,
but this is your first foray into\Nactually going from script to screen?
Pretty much. I mean, when I was an\Nundergrad, um, production classes,
we had to write and direct her own\Nstuff. So I have ventured into it,
but this is the first time before,\NI don't think I knew that. Yeah.
Some student films. Yeah. Yeah.
Where are these students\Nand where can we find these?
They're in my closet right now.\N16 millimeters. So it's like
cut and slice. Yup. Yup, yup. And you\Ndid you edited this yourself? Yep.
On a flatbed. Yup. I did not know\Nthis. This is sitting in my closet.
Why are you not editing your own\Npicture? Oh, I mean, I love editing,
but no, you're my guys, so\NI'm taking it all back. Jason.
[inaudible] listen,
I learned on a flatbed\Nmyself and haven't used one.
I mean we could have a whole\Nconversation about that too.
But like it truly saddens me that a\Nlot of schools don't do that anymore.
Everything is digital. So I know\Nyou had the Bolex we had everything.
So yeah, I teach skills.\NDid you know? I know,
but it helps because you are actually\Nvisually seeing how, I mean whatever your,
you're right, there's no more\Nactual film making, but I'm,
there's always been something for me,\Nit's always been a very tangible feeling.
The two, you know, shots come\Ntogether to tape it. It's a very,
and even connects me with, with the work\Neven though I'm working. Absolutely.
No, no, no, absolutely.\NAnd I love editing.
I love seeing the effect\Nthat you can have. Um,
when you put two different\Ncuts together and you know,
like looping it back to that seat and\Nspark those couple videos that I did just
for kind of, um, promoting\Nlike that was my sweet spot.
Like I can edit a two minute video\Nand I have a lot of fun doing it.
But, um, but yeah, so you're,\Nyou're my guy. [inaudible]
I'm glad to be. I'm\Nglad to be on board. Um,
but I wanted to talk to you about your\Nseed in spark because this is your first
foray into crowdfunding.
So as a screenwriter who's now\Ndecided to like actually, you know,
produce and get the picture made\Nand, and, and move, you know, it's a,
it's a different art obviously\Nthan screenwriting. And you know,
whenever you're writing a movie,\Nlike you always, you know,
I assume the goal when you're writing a\Nmovie is you want that movie to be made
someday, but it's a totally different,
they're totally different mediums\Nfrom the page to the screen.
So going into your first seed\Nand spark, like what, what, what,
what were your fears? What were you\Nreally worried about? Um, you know,
trying to, you know, get people\Ninterested in your picture without having,
you know, without having that\Nexperience necessarily to,
you know, cause you have\Nto take your, you know,
the crowd that's going to support you.
You have to kind of give\Nthem something to believe in.
And when you're kind of going\Ninto it fresh as I did as well,
like you want to connect with people,
but there's a fear behind it\Ncause you don't really know,
especially if this is\Nyour first time doing it,
you don't really know what the\Noutcome is. You know what yeah,
what's going to happen\Nin how you do that? No,
I mean it was really scary because this\Nwas so far outside of my comfort zone.
I, I don't think I'm alone in that.
I don't think most people like\Nasking for money, which is,
that's essentially what you're\Ndoing. Um, so I mean, I'll,
I'll start I guess with kind of the\Nthings that I felt were on my side with
this. Um, first of all, you know,\NI've written several scripts.
Uh, this particular project is the\Nshort version of a feature that I wrote,
same title.
She had it coming and I was very fortunate\Nbecause over the last year it got a
little bit of interest. Um,\Nand I say that with, you know,
on a modicum of, uh, of modesty.\NBecause when I say interest,
I don't mean like anything\Nstudio or production companies,\NI just mean that. Um,
yeah, yeah, there were\Nspendings material. I, you know,
the pages essentially that we've shot\Nfor the short, um, were read ad break,
the reading series that got me in touch\Nwith one of our actors who also produced
on it. Um, and, and then from there,\Nthe feature version of it, uh,
was a second round or at\Nthe Austin film festival.
And I just say these things\Nbecause, yeah. Well, because
you have to talk yourself\Ninto it sometime. Like I\Nbelong here. Exactly. And,
and when the scene spark launched,
a lot of people in my life were already\Naware of these things ha having happened
for me. And so it's was\Nlike, okay, this makes sense.
She's making this film that's already\Ngotten some interests. Um, and,
and so that, that was kind of\Non my side. And then also, um,
I should make clear that the actual\Nproduction of the short was self-funded.
Um, myself and my, uh, executive\Nproducing partner, Skyler shock,
we funded it ourselves.
And so I think that also helped because\Nit showed our crowdfunding supporters
that like we believe, yeah. Like we put\Nour own money behind the production.
So the seed and spark was specifically\Nfor finishing and marketing and the
whole, you know, eventual hopefully\Nfilm festival, um, uh, circuit.
So, so those were the good things. Um,
but as far as the fears with\Nthe crowd funding, I mean, the,
the fears were everything else. Right.\NUm, like you said, I'm a writer. I mean,
even just the production of the short\Nbrought up a ton of anxiety for me because
I'm not, I'd never really thought of\Nmyself as a production gal. And, um,
and so that had its whole\Nset of worries. Yeah.
They're not just two\Ndifferent mediums of art.
They're two different mediums of\Njust everything at that point.
Writing a script,
you can do it in your underwear and your\Nbedroom and where you want on the couch
and no one has to see you and you're\Nnot answering to anybody. And you know,
maybe you've already convinced yourself,\Nno one's gonna see this thing anyway.
It'll never be made anyway.
So I'm just going to do my own\Nthing and be happy with it.
But then when you start to\Nput something into production,
now there's all these\Nother external forces,
now you're with other people and now\Nyou're dealing with the personnel and
you're accountable. Yeah. And I\Nmean even before the seed and spark,
you know, we had our actors come in,
all amazing actors and we put them\Nall in deferred payment, you know,
so they were just believing in\Nthe material. Right. Um, you know,
we had all these other things that like\Nwith people calling in favors or taking
reduced rates for being\Npart of the production,
we knew that we were going to need to do\Nthis crowd funding to be able to finish
the film. But it's still, yeah, you, you\Nget to the point where it's like, okay,
we've come so far, we've\Nactually shot the project,
but you still don't know if there's going\Nto be enough people who believe in it.
And really it's, they might, they might\Nthink, Oh, that's kind of a fun idea,
I guess. You know, but it's really\Nthem choosing to believe in you.
And,
and then that's probably the scariest\Nthing is that it's very much a vulnerable
position to be in because of course people\Nhave a myriad of reasons why they may
not be able to contribute\Nfinancially to a crowd funder.
But you don't know those\Nreasons. You don't ness,
it's not necessarily your business\Nto know those reasons. Right.
All you know is that these people\Naren't giving to you. Right?
So you think it's very personal.\NUm, so it's not a great feeling
and it's, and, and, and, and at\Nleast for me, like, you know,
so we had our original Kickstarter in\N2012 and I knew that this was going to be
like, it's very different than,\Nthan a short movie. Certainly.
Or even a narrative.
Like I knew it was this was going\Nto be like a six year journey and I,
you know, it, it's, it's, it's really the,
the weird thing about Kickstarter and\Nthe whole crowd funding thing is I've
found people are more\Nthan happy to give you 20,
30 bucks here and there to support you\Nand push you forward and, you know,
get your back in that way. But in my mind,
like I had to like knowing that it was\Ngonna take five or six years, I had a,
I felt beholden to these people like,
like a couple of strangers\Ngave to our Kickstarter.
Like I had no idea who they were.
They just for whatever browsing on\NKickstarter for whatever reason,
saw the picture, you know, connected\Nwith it and wanting to contribute to it.
And I, the anxiety level\Njust goes up. I'm like,
I don't know who these people are.\NI'm not going to have a meeting.
And the funny thing is I was like,
I think I had put in the Kickstarter that\Nwe were going to finish it around 2015
and that's a very short timeline for\Ndocumentary documentaries. Take seven,
eight, nine, 10 years.
I met a guy just during the week who's\Nin year nine of his documentary and he's
still got about a year,\Nmaybe two years left to go.
And I wanted to make sure I gave people\Nsomething for their money just so they
weren't waiting. And you know,
so in my uncle's an artist and\Nhe's in the picture and you know,
I printed out some of his artwork and\Ngave them as like immediate perks.
Cause it was like, if you're going to\Ngive me your hard earned money, like,
like to to do that. Like I said,
even though I've kind of discovered\Npeople are more than happy to,
so if for me it was just the,
a huge responsibility that, you know,
like these people have trusted you\Nwith their money and who knows,
maybe these people are loaded in rich\Nand $20 to them is like 20 cents to me.
But like it's still 20\Nbucks. Right. And I'm like,
I gotta get you something for\Nthat money. And if I don't like,
I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm\Ngetting over on you. Like I'm,
I'm stealing your money. Well,
I think it means that much more when\Nsomebody is willing to, I mean, look, I,
any kind of support really,\Ntruly means the world to me,
even if that means that all the, and I\Ndon't want to say that all they can do,
but if the choices that they can share\Nit through Facebook or tweet about it,
like that's phenomenal. And I try to\Nmake it really clear to everybody,
like if that's what you're able to\Ndo and you feel compelled to do that,
that's great. If somebody that was\Nable to contribute financially,
it means that much more\Nto me because not only,
I mean there's absolutely the\Ncomponent of like feeling and it's not,
it's not a negative connotation,
but like feeling obligated\Nbecause they believe in you.
So you want to reciprocate and give them\Nsomething that they can be proud of,
that they contributed towards.\NBut also I do feel like, you know,
Kickstarter, Indiegogo, seed and spark,
like there are so many of these platforms\Nand it's become very popular to do
these kinds of things. Go fund me. Um,
so I feel like there's a little bit\Nof like crowd funding fatigue already.
And so for someone to actually say, okay,
I see these all the time but\NI'm still going to give to you,
it means that much more to me that\Nthey're like, sure, I get inundated. Yeah.
And especially like this was something\Nthat I saw throughout the life of the
seat and spark campaign.
I mean I had people from all different\Nparts of my life contribute and I'm
grateful to each and every one of\Nthem, but it except that one guy,
you know who who'd you are. But um,
it truly meant the world to me when I\Nsaw that another creative was giving
because a lot of us don't have\Na lot of expendable funds and,
or we are working on our own stuff\Nwhere that money could be going towards.
So, um,
so especially meant a lot to me to\Nhave other people who are in the same
industry giving because\Nthat's just, that's fun.
Is that why you chose the seed and spark?
Because he in spark is more geared\Ntowards movies specifically,
but more geared towards like a creative\Natmosphere kick. Kickstarter too.
Indiegogo's kind of gone\Ndown more of a product road.
Even Kickstarter has a lot, uh, has\Na lot of products and I see a lot of,
you know, big companies now,\Nlike, like Phillips and Roco,
like they have like a new projector or\Nsomething that they're raising money for
on Kickstarter. A lot\Nof companies like, yeah,
they release their\Nproducts, like, you know,
like filmmaking equipment and you know,
different things and stuff and that\Nbag through Kickstarter and also
we can have a conversation about what\Nyou would maybe say are more established
creatives and filmmakers also using\Nthose platforms because there's,
there's a conversation to be had there\Ntoo about like when do you go that route
when maybe you have access\Nto other means of funding,
whereas maybe you and I don't. So\Nanyway, does that, well, no, no.
So like does that make you upset?\NDoes that make you [inaudible] angry?
I guess? I guess my first reaction is\Nsurprise that that's the route they took.
Um,
perhaps I should give a little bit of\Nspace to them in terms of giving benefit
of the doubt that maybe for\Nthem that's also like look,
another part of the student's spark.
Obviously hitting our funding goal\Nwas very important and stressful.
Um,
but also what really was wonderful about\Nthe seed and spark even throughout all
those stressful days was getting\Nword out about the project.
So maybe I should, you know,
say well maybe they're just\Ntrying to do the same thing.
They're just training the community,
building an audience before the movies,
even out there and getting people hungry\Nfor it so that when the movie's ready,
they've already got, you know, people\Nwho are invested and want to see it.
And on one level, you know,
it's great because it's just another\NAvenue for filmmakers do you know,
to get their word out there. But on\Nanother level, I totally see it that way.
It's like, wait a minute dude. Like I\Nknow you can raise. Like I know, you know,
people like I know you've\Nworked on studio. Then again,
it just makes me scratch my head\Nbecause I'm like, well, gosh,
if this person has to\Ngo this route as well,
what does that mean for the rest of them?
Even when I get established, I got
this one literally going\Nto be a lifelong thing. Um,
but to your question about, you\Nknow, why seed and spark, you know,
I don't know if I necessarily\Never to be quite honest,
gave serious thought to\Nusing other platforms only\Nbecause from the moment that
Skyler and I decided that yes,
this is what we're going to\Nhave to do to finish this film.
I had already heard about it.
I knew that it was a platform specifically\Nfor creatives and filmmakers. Um,
I thought that uh, the individuals\Nbehind it, namely Emily Best,
um,
really were invested in making sure that\Nthe people who use the platform find
success. Absolutely. And, uh, enormous.
It's enormous. They do a great\Njob of walking you through.
They have about a dozen videos that\Nkind of go over every aspect. Oh, okay.
Yeah, I've never done one with them,\Nso I don't know the whole, they,
they really are. Are there for the\Nfilmmakers and the creatives. And so,
um, it just felt like the right way\Nto go. Yeah. And I, and I mean it's,
it's a really easy platform.
And also when you submit they have a\Nreal life person go through your campaign
and then yep.
And get back to you saying here's maybe\Nwhere we think you could tweak any
notes. They give you notes. Oh wow. I\Ndon't think I ever got notes from anybody.
You kind of just have\Nto go. And I actually,
when we had our Kickstarter to\Nwhat was happening a lot back then,
this is again 2012,
2013 where people were getting green-lit\Nand their goals and Kickstarter is
different in that it's\Nlike all or nothing.
There's no 80% there is no like\Nget what you get and that's yours.
It was like you have to pick a goal.
That's all also very stressful\Nbecause you have to like,
what am I gonna like do I ask for 5,000\Ndo I ask for 50,000 I really have no
idea cause I don't know how\Npeople are going to respond.
I see a fair amount of disparity between\Nlike people who seemingly are doing the
same kind of campaigns for\Nthe same kind of maybe um,
scope of projects, but they're asking\Nfor like vastly different amounts.
So like, yeah, so like where do you\Neven come up with that front? Yeah,
but like with Kickstarter for awhile\Npeople were getting green-lit and getting
their money and not\Nfinishing stuff and either,
you know, I don't want to\Nsay take the money and run,
but take the money and run and\Nyou didn't know who was legit.
You didn't know who wasn't. There\Nwasn't a lot of vetting. And I remember,
I want to say it was\Nlike 2014, maybe 2015.
I kind of fell out of it\Na little bit. So you know,
if any listeners want to chime in and let\Nme know when it was, they had started,
they added a section where you\Nhad to say, here are the risks.
Here's specifically if you give us money.
Here's specifically the\Nchallenges that we face. Like,
so you might, you know,
just something that lets people know\Nthat like you're not guaranteed anything.
You know, I had given, you know,\Nwhen I had had the Kickstarter,
I wanted to also be\Ninvolved in that community.
And so I gave to a couple of\Ndifferent pictures, um, you know,
little small dollar amounts, 20 bucks\Nhere and there, 10 bucks or whatever.
But there were also some products that\NI really dug, you know, one of them,
I don't remember what it was\Ncalled, so don't hold me to it,
but it was like a little, it was a\NiPhone camera handle. And it was like,
and it had like a foldout thing that\Nlike could become a stand as well.
And it was like, and you can pre-purchase,\Nthey, they specifically say, you're,
you're, you're donating to the campaign.\NYou're not buying this item, you know,
but I was like, this seems like\Na really cool thing. I want it.
And so I gave to it.\NAnd then the guys, um,
his deadlines started slipping. He's\Nlike, we're going to be done, you know,
in 2013 in, in December, and\Nwe'll get it to you then.
And then December would roll around\Nand like, Oh, we're not ready yet,
but we're going to get it to you in a\Ncouple of months. And maybe, I don't know,
six to eight months had\Npassed and nobody, like,
nobody got the product that\Nthey thought they were getting.
And Kickstarter was very, you know,
and people were complaining to Kickstarter\Nand saying, um, you know, like,
we're not, you know, we bought\Nthis thing, you know, what's up?
And Kickstarter was specifically saying,\Nwell, you didn't buy it. You, you know,
you were giving to this campaign.
And then when this guy finally\Ngot his product out there,
people were seeing it in the\Nstores before the Kickstarter.
People were even getting there.\NWow. So like, people were like,
I've been waiting for, uh, in,
I've been waiting for a fucking year to\Nget this thing and I supported you and
then followed you this whole time.
And now you're selling it in\Nbest buy before I even get mine.
And a lot of people were doing that. Like\Nshit is not to focus on this one dude.
But like, but that's just\Nan example of, of, of,
of one of the dangers of Kickstarter.\NAnd like I said, as, as, as a filmmaker,
my, you know, myself, I owed,\NI felt like I owed to people.
And when you're giving\Nto a total stranger,
you don't know what you're\Nreally getting into. Nope.
And I took that responsibility very\Nmuch to heart like I like and as our
deadlines started to slip,
cause I promised people a finished movie\Nin 2014 and then 2015 and then 2016 and
I was, you know, like,
and sometimes like the movie would take\Na break for like months at a time cause
work would get hectic or I\Njust needed a break from it.
That's something that they were like,\Nyou owe these people and they're like,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
And then you see other people not give\Na shit at all and then you don't see the
support from Kickstarter. Right.\NAnd you're like, wait a minute,
I'm doing this all by myself here.\NAnd thank you for the platform,
but like some support from the\Ncompany would have been nice.
And that's what I've heard. That's\Ngood about Seton spark. Yeah. I mean,
and I mean, just backtracking\Nbriefly, you know,
when you were talking about sometimes\Nyou go for months at a time without
working on it.
I think some people don't realize like\Nif you get the funding for something,
it's not like all of a sudden this\Nis your personal income, right. For,
I mean it's, it's identified as\Npersonal income for tax purposes, right?
But this is, this is you,\Nyou know, paying for stuff,
but also like,
it's still essentially a passion\Nproject and you still have your life.
And so there's a balance to be had, um,
in terms of continuing to move forward\Nand be accountable for what you promised
to people. And that is something that\Nseed and spark is very serious about. Um,
they, because it makes their\Nplatform exactly reflect on them.
It reflects on them. Exactly. You know,
people are gonna stop even\Neven down to, you know,
what they label as incentives where like\Nyou give in certain increments and you
get, you know, little rewards,\Nthey even are, you know,
really doubled down on saying like if you\Npromise somebody something you need to
give it to them. You know? And there's\Neven for every person that contributes,
you know, on, on the website, you\Nknow, just from my eyes only you,
you see all these people\Nlined up and then it,
it shows you where you have to tick\Noff that you've actually fulfilled your
incentive to them. See a\NKickstarter, like I said,
I don't know if they have that now,
but back then like I had to set up my own\Nspreadsheet and keep track of like who
gets a DVD, who gets a poster and\Nwe'll get to this, who gets to that?
And like you can see\Ntheir levels on there,
but like I had do all that heavy lift.
It's sitting in front of you the\Nentire time. So like you can't really,
it is great. It is great. And I think\Nthat that's, you know, like you said,
really important because you, you are\Naccountable to these people. And I mean,
part of it, I'll say that just\Nthrough my personal scene spark,
I'm sure that there are lots of\Nthem where they had, you know,
maybe a significant amount of people\Nthat weren't personal connections that
contributed. I only had kind of a\Ncouple of those between me and Skyler's,
you know, um, kind of\Ncontacts and connections.
Most of them were people\Nwithin our circles. Um,
whether that's professional\Nor personal. Um,
so I say that because like I'm going\Nto continue to see these people.
Well that sounds like\Nthat's another level of it.
It's like they'll know [inaudible]
but again,
it's just kind of another layer and\Nsure it can be looked at in kind of a,
you know, stressful kind of\Nway. But I take it, you know,
those questions that are\Neven coming, you know,
three weeks after the\Nclose of the campaign. I,
I do take that in a positive way cause\Npeople just care. Yeah. Let me go pee.
People were contacting you. Oh yeah,
I've definitely gotten people\Nalready asking about like,
how's posts going and that\Nsort of thing. And, um,
not during the campaign\Nitself. Um, not too much,
unless they weren't clear that\Nthis was for the finishing funds.
Um, some people are just in, it's fine.
They're not reading the fine print about\Nlike what exactly we're asking this.
Um, but no, just, just after the close\Nof it, I've gotten some people and um,
uh, and it's, it's great, you know,\Nyou have to say, Whoa, you know,
we're so kind of [inaudible] yeah. But\Nthat is the accountability. Like, no,
like I gotta do something\Nor else a, they're there,
they're gonna come after me. Exactly.\NSo let me jump back for a second then.
So you sit, so production\Nitself was self-funded.
You don't have to be specific with\Nany numbers. If you don't want, like,
that's gotta be scary. You're\Nputting your personal money into,
I know you believe in the projects. Um,\Nyou know, and I bring it up because I'm,
I was speaking to someone the other day\Nabout it and, um, Mark Duplass, who's,
you know, big in the South by Southwest\Nworld and the indie world and whatever,
he had, um, a keynote speech at South\Nby Southwest in 2016 I think it was.
And my friend had asked a question and\Nhe had said something to the effect of,
and again, if anybody out\Nthere wants to correct me,
please by all means and send something\Nlike, Oh great, you have your script now,
like just go put $10,000 on your\Ncredit card and go shoot your movie.
And I just found that to\Nbe very irresponsible,
very reckless. Um, it upset\Ncause he, and he, I mean,
he's from humble beginnings,\Njust like us and,
and went out and made his\Npictures and, you know,
tried to do what he needed to do\Nbefore he, you know, became, you know,
who he is now. But you know, the,
the stories of like Kevin Smith\Nand Robert Rodriguez, you know,
putting $7,000 on your credit\Ncard and going into debt.
Like I get that it's a personal project\Nand it's oppression project and you want
to like you're gonna back your shit but\Nit just to recommend to somebody to put
something on their credit\Ncard just felt, feels like,
have you forgotten where you came from\Nalready if that's with the duet or
anything.
But these are the considerations\Nfilmmakers feel and they think that like
that they're not being serious about the\Ncraft if they don't put themselves in
that. Right. And there's like this,
this mythic thing now like\Nespecially Kevin Smith with,
with clerks and all that, there's\Nthis like I need to go into debt,
like art is pain and I need to feel it\Nin my wallet or just some grandiose thing
like that, that like\Nat the end of the day,
like for the boots on the ground for\Npeople like us that are like in the middle
and doing it like, like I, I don't want\Nto ever, that's the one thing I learned.
Like if you're going to make a movie,\Nmake it with someone else's money.
You know your email, you know,
and I don't mind putting my own money\Ninto something when I really do believe in
it, but like my wife has specifically\Nsaid now like we're never spending another
nickel of our own money on something\Nagain. And that's, you know,
it's stressful because if you do that,
like it affects your personal\Nrelationships, it affects\Nyour own bottom line.
You know, like, I mean we work and we\Nmake money and we'll put, you know,
we want to support ourselves and\Nmake our stuff, but in the same vein,
like if I w I'll do that,
but if I put myself in any more\Nfinancial danger just to make you know,
a a picture like I just\Ncan't do it anymore.
Like maybe in front I was 25 or\Nsomething. Okay. It's a different story,
but like we're adults, like\Nit's a different deal. There's,
here's a lot to unpack around that issue.
But these are the things people have\Nto deal with. And like, you know,
it goes to, I don't want to\Nkeep blabbing and cut you off,
but like it goes back to that whole\Nlike, just go make your movie,
find your tribe, make your\Nmovie, take out loans,
take out credit cards and just\Ngo make your movie. I'm like,
and the odds of you ever seeing a\Ndime from that are like less than,
you know, the, the last show I had,
they should say it's less of a chance\Nthan getting into Harvard, you know?
So it's like, again, it reckless\Nto, to recommend it to other people,
but I don't know if it comes from a\Nplace of like that mythic, you know,
like you need to like\Npunish yourself, you know,
if it's going to be worth something.\NI mean, it's the same thing. Look,
I'm gonna make like a huge\Njust blanket statement.
There's no one way to\Nmake it in this industry.
And so there's,
what's great for you might\Nbe disastrous for me. Right.
And so if those individuals,
if that's within their wheelhouse\Nand co whatever to to make that move,
great, they can do that. Right. Um,
but to potentially like shame someone\Nelse or guilt them or make them feel like
they're not as serious about wanting to\Nbe part of this business because they're
not willing to put themselves\Nin financial dire straights.
It is complete bullshit. And I,
it's not that I'm saying that like do\NPlosser anybody specifically does that?
I don't think you are, but yes.
Are people out there who have a certain\Nattitude about those kinds of things and
um, and you know that that can be said\Nfor really all facets of the industry.
I know that you can go down a\Nhuge rabbit hole with this one,
but like the same thing with like\Nactors or whatever are telling,
they just pack up your car\Nand moved out, let you know,
like there's all different\Nways that people say that.
And really it comes down.
Like the one thing that I've just\Nlearned over the last couple of years
especially is that you just have\Nto do what works for you. Right.
And as far as, you know,
coming back to the whole self\Nfinancing, the production,
I mean essentially once,\Ncause look for a hot second,
we thought that we were gonna maybe\Ndo the seed and spark for production,
but then we all of a sudden\Nfound ourselves in kind of\Na time constraint because
we had kind of made verbal\Npromises, especially to our cast,
which we had a really large\Ncast, we had 11 people.
And so that's a lot of\Ncoordinating schedules,
especially when they're doing\Nan and deferred payment.
And so they're doing us a huge favor going\Ninto it that they're probably working
for free. Exactly. And so, so, you know,
all of a sudden we're getting closer\Nand closer to the state that we said we
were gonna shoot and for X, Y,\Nand Z reasons. The is sparked,
didn't happen as soon as we wanted it to.
And so essentially it came down to\Nme and Skylar saying, Skylar and me,
um, what, what are we going to do\Nabout this? And so she and I, um,
said, you know, she said, this is what\NI can contribute. And then I said,
this is what I can contribute.
And she 100% honored\Nthat at, I mean she's,
if I could just gush about my executor,\Nshe's the most amazing person.
I hope to work with her\Nfor a million years. Um,
and so I couldn't have asked for a more\Nsupportive person. She's also the lead,
um, in, in the short thanks for my\Nlittle blog. And, um, in any case, like,
look, I will say that for myself as\Ntypically happens in productions,
even though I'm not really in that\Nworld that much, we went over,
I will say that I too have a\Nextremely supportive spouse who said,
okay, this is what I will kick in.
And I am immensely grateful to Derek,
my amazing husband. Um,
and also I recognize how fortunate\NI am to have had someone like that.
And so I really, really,
truly appreciate that there\Nwas no debt that was acquired,
um, because of production. So\Nthat is the dream. So, and,
but also we did it, you know, so\Nto speak, uh, on a shoestring. So,
um, you know, we, like I said, all the\Nactors were deferred. Um, the crew,
I wish I could have paid him three times\Nwhat we did because they all across the
board deserved it. Um, so, you know, they,
they worked at a very moderate rate.\NUm, you know, our amazing director,
Getty snobby, uh, you know,
he did it for the love of it and this is\Nhis directorial debut. So he, you know,
just wanted to have the chance to do this.
So there were a lot of things where\Nwe didn't have to pay anything at all,
but you know, it's still,
it sure you can go out there and\Nshoot with an iPhone I suppose. And,
and you know, everybody\Njust does it as a favor,
but that you do also get to a certain\Npoint, I think where you have to,
you have to kind of bite the\Nbullet a little bit and say like,
I need to instill a certain level of\Nprofessionalism to show people that I'm
serious about. Right, right. Because\Nyou, I mean, as the executive producer,
like you have to guide that ship.\NThat's another, like I said,
there's all these stress points\Nfor people at, at different stages.
And like if you lose your\Nshit on set or whatever,
then people are like, well no, they\Ndon't know what they're doing. You know?
Or like you said, you can shoot it\Non an iPhone or whatever and do,
but you wanna you're aspiring to\Nsomething, you know? Yeah. More.
And also, I mean look,
there are the Steven Soderbergh's of\Nthe world who can do that and produce
something really amazing. Right.\NBut even he had a [inaudible].
I mean he didn't just start doing this\Nand he didn't do it on his own, you know,
and he already, you know,\Nyeah, he has. He has, I don't,
I don't know the specifics, but\NI assume he has like a, you know,
group of people that support\Nhim and those endeavors.
I could not put out what he pretended\Nsomebody of his nature could put out with
an iPhone. Right. So, you know,
we went a certain route where sure we\Ncould have done super gorilla style,
but it wasn't really going to serve me.
The project in and of\Nitself is like a self,
a fully realized story, but it\Nalso is supposed to kind of,
you know, the goal is hopefully to\Ndo the whiplash route where you know,
it's supposed to generate interest\Nin the feature. And you know, again,
kind of coming back to that like\Nvisual professionalism, you know,
I wanted it to look a certain way and I\Nwanted it to be finished a certain way
so that people know I'm\Nserious about it, you know,
and I believe in it that\Nmuch. So, and again,
that's not to say that like shooting\Nsomething on an iPhone if you're just
getting started isn't like, again,\Neverybody's got a different thing.
Everybody works.
Some people specifically want to go\Nand shoot on their iPhone and say like,
this is my calling card, this is, this\Nis my thing that makes me special,
you know, and go out and do that. But\Nyou just, this was your yeah. And it,
and it just all circles back\Nwhere you know everybody just,
you do you right. And, and at\Nthe end of the day, you know,
whether it's a doc that\Nis going to, you know,
through production and post go through\Nsix years of your life or something,
you know, have a longer or shorter\Nduration, it's gonna live with you. Right?
It's not going to live with any of the\Npeople who are just telling you what they
think you should do with\Nyour project, you know,
take a different peoples\Nrecommendations under advisement.
Did you feel,
did you feel that anybody that you were\Nworking with or anybody that you were
using as a sounding board, um,
we're trying to get you to do things a\Ncertain way that wasn't true to yourself,
if you will,
that was like somebody was trying to get\Nyou to do the seed and spark what the
way they imagined it would be. And you're\Nlike, I know this is, this is not, uh,
this is not something that's going\Nto work for me. Like, you know,
somebody that maybe had an agenda, like\Nyou certainly don't have to name names,
but like everybody's always looking out\Nfor, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I mean, yes, no. Um,
because I think people are\Ngenerally well-intentioned, right?
One hopes you. Yeah. So you\Nmust be new to this business.
So that doesn't sound right\Nat all. Well intentioned.
And so, you know, that's\Nwhere I try to come from.
I'm still human being\Nthough. So, you know,
somebody might say something to me and I\Ninitially have like a very kind of poor
reaction to it. But,\Num, my point being yes.
Um, through, you know, the,
the idea for this first\Nhappened around, um,
December of 2018 so that's when this\Nfirst kind of started coming together that
we were going to shoot something and\Nwe didn't actually shoot until the last
weekend in July, 2019.\NSo seven months. And,
and kind of like what you were saying,\Num, with your own project, you know,
some of those months, you know,
not much was really moving forward because\Nwe were kind of figuring this all out
on her, you know, as we went\Nalong and over that time, sure.
Certain suggestions were made that at\Nthe end of the day there was a part of me
that was uncertain because\Nagain, I was like, you know,
walking through waters that I wasn't\Nfamiliar with. If that's the saying. Um,
but, but at the same time, you know,
with at the risk of sounding like\Njust super cliched, like I just,
it didn't feel good in my gut. And\Nat the end of the day, you know,
I knew pretty early on\Nwhen, when even just the,
the very general topic\Nof crowd funding came up,
it became clear pretty quickly that I\Nwas going to have to be the name behind
it. And I was like, I got it. I wrote\Nthis, I'm going to be, you know,
an executive producer on it. Like it\Nmade sense to me, but at the same time,
you know, obviously it wasn't really\Nwhat I, my, my first choice, but it had,
it wasn't the choice that was\Nthe choice that had happened.
Did you feel you were forced into that?\NDid you feel like you were like, like,
cause you're not coming, you're not\Ncomfortable, you're going into something,
you're not exactly comfortable,\Nyou know, navigating, you know,
new waters and you're trying to find,\Nyou know, your bearings and all of that.
Did you feel like you weren't getting\Nsupport from people that you were
expecting to support you\Nor were you just like,
I have to take ownership of this\Nthing, you know, and do it, you know,
by any means necessary.
But like how do you get past that fear\Nof navigating into new waters and just
like, well what do I do? And again,\Nit's like it's part of the conflict.
The internal conflict is like I'm scared\Nas fuck to take the next step because I
don't know what I'm doing yet.
But if people see that I\Ndon't know what I'm doing,
they're not going to support the picture.\NSo I have to put on a happy face,
you know? But I, uh,\Nand for me at least I,
and that's kind of why I would take\Nbreaks cause like I would get locked up,
you know, putting too much, you know,
wait to other people's view\Nof the project and then,
and now you get into this weird\Nhead space where you're like,
I need to put on a happy face.\NI need to show my confidence,
I need to do all that, but I\Nreally don't know what I'm doing.
So like how do I do that without\Ndriving myself? Absolutely insane.
I would say that it was\Nlike, Hm, like an 80,
20 split 80% I was like,
and it's something that you have to kind\Nof, well okay I speak for myself only.
It was something that I had to eventually\Nkind of step into and it's like a,
you know,
buy a pair of new shoes and you have to\Nwalk in them a little bit before they
finally feel comfortable with through\Nyour shoes so it break them in.
So at first it felt completely foreign\Nto me to do something like this.
And also, like you said\Nearlier, I'm not 21,
I'm not like some younger\Nkid who has, you know,
like I'm further along age\Nwise and in career wise and,
and so that actually, you know,
that's something else that's kind of a\Ncomponent of this is like at one point do
you feel like,
is this just like totally ridiculous that\NI'm the age that I'm at and I'm doing
a Crowdfunder for a forward. Right. Um,
so I wouldn't even have considered and\NI mean as that was definitely on my mind
because this career,\Nthis industry as a whole,
people come in and out of it, people\Nwalk away and come back to it.
Um, but then it's its own little\Necosystem. And outside of that, the,
you know, the world at large, you know,
people are doctors and lawyers\Nand teachers and they, you know,
kind of move along a more\Nlinear trajectory. Right.
And so definitely there\Nwas a fear of like,
are people gonna think I'm just kind\Nof nuts to do this? Like I said,
with the whole, you know,\Nbreaking in the shoes,
there comes a point where it's like,\Nwell, what do I have to lose if, you know,
if I don't do this right,\Nlike I should be fine.
Yeah. And dive into this.\NAnd then everyone's like,
look at the old fart trying to\Nbreak into the, be like, Whoa, like,
and you got to do it while you\Ncan. You gotta do it while you can.
And also at the end of the day,\Nyou're a human being. Of course,
the idea of what other people think of\Nyou might affect you to some degree,
but you have to just do what's going\Nto make you happy. As long as you know,
to your comfort zone,
you're not putting yourself in any kind\Nof danger financially or otherwise,
you're not hurting someone else. You know?
Like if you're just trying to do something\Ncreative and put something cool or
fun or different out into the world, I\Nthink you should pursue that. Um, so,
so eventually I got to\Nthat point and, and again,
I will double down on saying that like,
my husband was really instrumental\Nin that because absolutely there were
multiple times where I'm like, I just\Nwant to, I'm just abandoning this.
I don't want to do it\Nanymore. Um, you know,
there definitely were times where I\Njust felt like for whatever reason,
it wasn't gonna work out during the\Ncampaign itself. No. Beforehand,
no beforehand, before production.\NUm, those first six months and,
and he really was the one who was like,\Nyou, you have to give this a chance.
Like you, you have to try it. If you've\Nnever tried it before, how do you,
how do you know? Maybe you do it and\Nyou don't even like it. Like, well,
I gave it a shot and it's\Nnot really what I want to do.
Sometimes people don't know what they\Nwant to do until they do it. Yeah,
exactly. And, and again,
I understand how fortunate I am to have\Nsomebody who believed in me during the
many times where I did not believe in\Nmyself and think that I could like really
do something like this.\NNobody does it alone.
So I'm not saying that only my husband,
obviously I have a huge network of people\Nwho are just loving and supportive and
believe in me, Skylar among them.\NSo, so going back to the, the,
the seed and spark then, um, so\Nyou're in the seed and spark,
you're raising the money. What was your\Ngoal at the time? 8,600 8,600. See,
that's like I raised 6,000 on\Nmy Kickstarter, like 8,600.
It's just like I had somebody who\Nwas like, why don't you blow it real?
It's so low in number comparatively,\Nbut it's still 8,000, $600.
I had someone go, just, why don't you\Njust run it up to 10? I was like, eh,
I don't need to make it harder on\Nmyself. I appreciate your confidence.
Did you mean the other over 14,
if you want to like be an executive\Nproducer [inaudible] difference. Cool.
Right? Um, yes. So each,
so you had 8,600 bucks now the way and\NSparky is like you just have to get to
80% and then you get that. Yes. Um,
if you get to eat 80% of your total goal,\Nyou essentially get what they call it,
the green light. And so, um,
even if you don't make a cent\Nover 80% when the campaign closes.
And to my knowledge, I think\Nall their campaigns are 30 days.
I don't think there are extensions.
Can you choose 60 to start or a year?
Cause that's actually a\Ngood thing because a lot of,
a lot of the thought process,
especially with the Kickstarters is how\Nlong am I going to do it if I do it for
too short a time. Like I won't have\Nenough time to raise the money I need,
but if I do it too long a\Ntime, now there's fatigue,\Nright. All the people like,
like they don't want to see you begging\Nfor money for, you know, 60 days.
That is, I would say, again,
my own little 2 cents.
The biggest thing that people need to\Nbe aware of when they're doing something
like this,
you do not want to tap out your potential\Ncommunity of supporters too soon.
Um, and I don't mean\Nfinancially tapped them out.
I mean like getting to the point\Nwhere they're just like, you know,
blocking your email. Got it. And\Ngave you my 20 bucks already. Jesus.
And that was something that again, um,
seed and spark was really good\Nabout in terms of saying like,
you can not just have your communication\Nsolely be about like, give me money,
give me money. Like, like people again,\Nit's like silly to even have to say,
people don't want to hear\Nthat. Right. You know, and,
and so you have to be really delicate, um,
about how you communicate\Nwith your audience. And so,
you know,
I made very deliberate choices about\Nlike how often I was gonna email people.
Um, how often, I mean, I said I set\Nup, um, you know, Facebook, Twitter,
Insta specifically for the project.
So I still have my personal accounts\Nand I had to make a decision. Okay.
Obviously the ones connected\Nto the project, I could\Nhave kind of free reign to,
you know, I was like communicating\Nevery day, but it wasn't,
it certainly was still not, Hey,\Nwe're still at this point, we need X,
you know, X amount. Um, you\Nknow, I was introducing our cast,
I was showing pictures from,\Nyou know, onside I was doing,
but you had great behind the\Nscenes content. This is like,
it's got to be extra value and make it\Nworth it for someone that's in large part
to our phenomenal photographer. I'm going\Nto give a shout out to Nathan McMann.
Um, use him guys. If you need\Nonset photographer. He's amazing.
And so I was being really cognizant\Nabout not getting on people's nerves.
Right. Um, and in retrospect I, you know,
if I could say I'm proud of\Nsomething, I'm proud that I like,
I think I balanced that,
but it's still really terrifying\Nbecause you know, again,
seed and spark,
they kind of prep you for what the\Nusual trajectory of a campaign will be.
Meaning that when you first launch\Nyou're going to get a flurry,
a pledges and it's going to be this\Namazing thing and you're like, Oh my God,
we're gonna hit our goal and like a week\Nand then crickets for weeks. It just,
they hit the brakes and weeks\Nthree formula. Oh for sure.
It's the one thing that kind of fits\Ninto that formula because you have,
you have essentially two groups of people.
You have the people that it's the same\Nas like, like in places so many things.
Like when you send out a\NFacebook invite for a party,
you have the group of people\Nthat immediately RSVP and\Ntell you whether or not
they can come and then you have nothing.
And then all of a sudden in the last\Nlike hour before you're like, Hey guys,
like the parties tonight.
Then all of a sudden you get the other\Ngroup of people who are like, Oh, sorry,
can't make it. Or like\NI'll be there, you know,
so you have those two\Ngroups yet no middle ground.
And that applies to crowd funding\Nas far as how I experienced it.
So weeks very, very similar to that.\NYeah. So weeks two and three were very,
very slow to try to maintain momentum. Um,
this isn't something that you have to\Ndo, but we did a matching, um, thing for,
I think it was like we kind\Nof split the difference.
So it was like two and a half weeks\Nto the three and a half week Mark. Um,
we did a matching program where like\Nat first we said like up to a thousand,
but then we got a really great response\Nand so we kind of kept going. Um,
and I think eventually we matched\N1700 funds and money is going even for
exactly. And then, and then there and\Nthat, that's another category of people.
Some people like just want a\Nlittle extra incentives. Right. Um,
and so that could be something that you\Nuse to your advantage. And then again,
things slow down. We did hit the 80% Mark,\NI think with a week to go. Right. So,
so that was wonderful. Um,\Nand at that point I felt good.
I felt okay, like if this truly\Nis all we're going to get,
then that's fine. We'll\Nmake it work at work. Um,
but I'm a human being and so I\Nthink it's human nature to be like,
Oh, but I do like, am I still,
is it going to look bad if I don't\Nget a hundred percent sacrifice? Yeah.
And, and you know,
I had to just kind of\Ncome to peace about that.
And eventually what ended up happening\Nis like in that last week of the
campaign, um, you know, to my\Nrecollection, like, you know,
here and their pledges were coming in\Nand essentially the last five days of the
campaign, um, I, you know,
was still doing my normal communications\Nthrough social, but I did, do,
you know, kind of a big email send out\Nand saying like five more days. Like,
here we go.
And then I think the morning\Nof the campaign was going\Nto close at 11 o'clock on
a Friday. And I was really debating,
do I send out another email?\NBecause again, I was really,
really worried about being that person.
I don't want anybody in\Nmy life to think that I,
and just like using them as a cash\Ncow, you know? And, and I was like,
you know what? Fuck it. I'm just\Ngoing to do it. And then they don't,
if they don't want to give,\Nnobody's twisting their arm.
And so I sent out the email with\Nlike two hours to go and then I,
um, messaged Skylar and said, Hey,\Nhere's what I did. And she's like, great,
I'm going to do a text.
And so between my last email\Nand her last like mass tax,
all of a sudden,
it was like the first couple hours of\Nthe campaign and we went from I think 87%
to 102% when we closed. And that\Nwas like in the last two hours.
And so like it was this crazy high\Nbut also incredibly long stressful.
And, um, you had a couple people\Ndonate twice and that was,
that was really, yeah. Yeah.
And so eventually we closed\Nat 102% and I'm really proud,
would've been proud if we\Nhadn't hit the hundred Mark.
But I'm very grateful that we got where\Nwe were. Awesome. Yeah. I mean when,
when we did ours, I think we hit on with\NKickstarter, it's an all or nothing,
right? So I think we hit it with\Na couple of days left to go. Um,
our goal was 6,000. We got 6,500. Um,
but yeah, those last few\Ndays are just like, you know,
and I didn't have a mailing list at\Nthe time. I didn't really have any,
like was just like kind of putting out\Nthe vibe like through Kickstarter and on
Facebook and stuff. I wasn't really\Nusing Twitter back then at all. And yeah,
people, people do tend to\Nwait until it cause it's like
people are very motivated by\Ndeadlines and you, you know,
people are living in their own lives and\Nthey're not living their life on your
crowdfund calendar. Really. I mean,
it's that thing like people\Nforget and they do things. Yeah.
They go on about their own business\Nand you're like, like, they're,
they're fucking with me. These\Npeople, all your thing. He's like,
why is this person not giving\Nto nano about the movement?
Just give me the goddamn money. Then\NI have a million things going on.
Maybe I was like baby or maybe a name,\Nyou know, whatever the case may be. Um,
but it's like that saying like you're\Nonly ever, except for a select few people,
the background actor and everybody\Nelse's like, exactly. Exactly.
Like nobody's thinking about it like\Nthey need to be. And that's, and
I learned that lesson, like you said,\Nlike, do I send this other email?
You know,
it's like if someone's going to get pissed\Noff because they got another email in
their inbox, fine. You know, like,
I'm already sending this to you\Nbecause I know you're receptive to it.
But if like too many of\Nthese is going to then find,
hit on subscribe and go on with your life.
Like I'm not gonna beat myself\Nup over your, your choices.
But in the same vein, give me your name,\Nmoney. I will say, you know, again,
coming back to this repeated\Npoint of like being human, um,
I think probably the biggest lesson I\Nlearned throughout the specifically the
seed spark is really this idea of\Nlike you really can't take anything
personally. Sure.
There were a couple people in my life\Nwhere I was surprised that they decided
not to contribute. Yeah. A couple of,\Njust a couple of people. But yeah.
That you knew they knew about it.\NOh the email bounds or something.
Like I know you know about it even to\Nthe point where they said like, Hey,
I'm going to get like they acknowledged\Nit and so, but here's the thing,
is that like, sure. That was a\Nbummer. But I don't know what like,
like you were saying, I don't know what's\Ngoing on with them and maybe I'm um,
I don't know to what degree they get\Ndistracted, you know, like my husband,
time and time again.\NYou know, cause like I,
I'm usually pretty prompt on like email\Nresponses and I get like really annoyed
if like somebody ignores me for like\Nthree days and he's like, not every,
every one of my emails to you is like\Ndays later they're so tweeting me in my
face thing. Yeah. And so like\NI know that like, and, and,
and I, I have total blind spots\Nin other parts of my life.
So I'm saying that like, you know,
of course my point though is that in terms\Nof how I might take things personally
about certain people not contributing\Nto the campaign, that's one really,
really,
really small part of who they are to me\Nin and what their friendship has given
me. So I'm not saying that\Nsometimes I'm not petty about it or,
or I, you know, like I become myopic\Nabout it, but it's like, okay,
maybe that person didn't\Ncontribute to this campaign,
but this person also was there for\Nme when like my father passed away.
Or you know, like, so\Nit's like, am I really,
am I really going to get upset with\Nthem because they, exactly. And,
and so, you know, all people\Ncannot be all things to you.
And that includes for what ever reason.
They couldn't support you in that\None particular way. That's fine.
And I think people need to, sure,\Nsure. Again, the whole human thing,
if anybody decides to do a crowd\Nfunder, they should really, um,
reflect on that because you can ruin\Nfriendships if you're going to just start
getting petty and bitchy because somebody\Ndidn't throw $20 your way. Right.
And you don't know the reasons why and\Nyou don't really deserve to know the
reasons why. Yeah. There are\Nbusinesses, especially with money,
like I don't need to tell you why I\Ndidn't give you 20 bucks. Maybe, you know,
it could be any of things\Nand it's fine, you know, so,
and if and if you were going to\Nmake or break that campaign off,
their contribution will then that really\Nspeaks more to you not being properly
prepared for the Crowdfunder.
You should never be just dependent\Non even a handful of people.
Like let's say you have a list of 10\Npeople who you thought were going to give
and they didn't. That's\Nnot really on them.
Like you should have been brought better\Nprepared to still make it a success
without that support. And I think, um,
don't think people think about\Nthat a lot. Yeah, I don't remember,
well maybe they do, don't quote\Nme on this, but I think, um,
I think seed and spark throughout some\Nstat that like of all the people that you
reach,
only about 8% are probably\Ngoing to give to your campaign.
So low feel so low. I mean I again,
like between the heavy lifting\Nbetween Skylar and my, you know,
connections, that number was higher. Um,
but I think the reason why I see it in\Nspark says that is because what they are
striving for with the people who use\Ntheir platform is that they are truly
trying to build the community for you.
So it really should go beyond\Nyour personal connections. Um,
and maybe I don't think there's going\Nto be a next round or me personally,
I'm going to find other ways for getting\Nfunding. Um, if I do this again. Um,
so you don't think you would\Ncrowdfund again? I mean,
what else do you just want to just\Nsell a script and walk away or no, I'm,
I think that, yeah, I mean it,
cause then you have to pay those\Npeople back. Absolutely. Um,
although never make promises.
I was just in the panel the other\Nnight where they were saying don't ever
promise people. Um, but okay,
I had a really great experience with C\Nas far cause I wanna make that really
clear and has absolutely nothing\Nto do. Um, with the platform.
It just kind of like I was telling\Nyou before, after it was all over,
I only kind of realized in retrospect\Nhow even under the bus of circumstances,
even after hitting 102%\Nfunded, I was exhausted. Right.
Where are you doing this? See,\Nthis is what I wanted to ask you.
Were you doing this all yourself\Nwith Skylar? Also postings.
Cause I'm not friends with\Nthe rest of your crew.
Like were they posting where your actors\Nsharing it and liking it and stuff?
Yes, yes, yes. I mean, um,
so that's another thing that seed and\Nspark encourages people to do. They,
they want you to have a team. It's not\Nsupposed to be a solo effort. However,
I think that, and this isn't a negative\Nthing, it's just the way it is.
If you are the person whose name is\Non that campaign, it is your baby,
one person's name on the camp. Like\Nthis campaign is body. You correct you,
they will show your team members. Both\NSkyler and Kurt were my team members.
But at the end of the day\Nit's your baby. And, and I,
I did have great support. You know, Skyler\Nagain, she was absolutely tremendous,
like a very significant portion of our\Npledges came through her reach out to do
all heavy lifting yourself. No, I mean I,
I did the majority of it in terms of\Nlike the social outreach and, and yeah,
I would say that like if we're really\Ngonna like look at hardcore numbers
percentage wise, the majority of the\Npledges came through my contacts.
But the bottom line is that I wouldn't\Nhave had a successful seed and spark if
it wasn't for Skylar.
If it wasn't for Curt reaching out\Nif it wasn't for the other actors.
All of them in different degrees\Nadvocated for the seed and spark and,
and so I'm thankful to everybody who did\Nthat and a couple of them pledged to it
as well. The actors, I mean,\Ncause now they're losing money
for nothing. You absolutely\Ndidn't have to do that guys. I'm,
I promise you they were now\Npart of my reach out. I did not,
I did not tell them that. They just,\Nyou know, that they believe in what,
and that meant a lot to me. I mean\Nwhat I was saying earlier about, um,
you know, when a creative would,\Nwould pledge to it even, and uh,
actually with what you were saying\Nearlier that like when you were doing your
own campaign and you would see other,\Nother ones that you were interested in,
you would get a couple dollars that\Nway. That was happening with me.
I was floored the first time. Somebody\Nthat I had kind of like, you know,
I doing air quotes,
met somebody through seed and spark\Nbecause they were doing their own campaign
at the time that all of a sudden I saw\Na pledge come through for them from them
and I was like, what? But there
in the middle of their own campaign and\Nthey can't afford to be [inaudible] it.
It touched me beyond, I even\Nhad when when we had our,
I had to call,
I think it was the Indy year when we\Nhad the Indiegogo in 2015 I had to call
support for some reason and we had a\Nfiscal sponsor like so we were going
through their page but for some at\Nsome point I had to call support for
something and her name is Marina\NPalm Rose. I still remember her name.
You will know. I haven't spoken to her,\Nhad any contact with her in six years.
She won't give a buck but she like works\Nwith platform. She was like, you know,
and I think maybe she was\Ntesting something out,
but like she gave a dollar and I was\Nlike, you didn't have to give me a dollar.
Yeah. Like, like I said,\Nand I remember her name,
this is someone who just gave me $1 and\Nlike I remember her and every time I was
putting together the movie and doing the\Ncredits and stuff and typing in all the
donor's names and stuff, I'm like,\Nthat's that lady that gave me the dollar,
you know, like, thank you so much.
Strangers that were giving me, you know,
just 10 20 bucks that like didn't\Nknow who I was. I still remember two,
you know,
one of them gave me like $20 and like\Nit was a total stranger that lived in
Texas. And I was like, I like,
and I went through the whole course\Nof seven years saying like this total,
like I owe her the DVD.
And when we got into South by and I\Nreleased the movie and or you know,
before it was picked up, you know,
when I had sent the DVDs out as like the\Nperks to people seven years later and I
had wrote her a little note and said,\NHey, like I still don't know you,
we never actually chatted but like your\N20 bucks like stayed at the fore of my
mind throughout the entire\Ncourse of production. Thank you.
And she just wrote, she\Nwrote me back, she was like,
I don't even know if she remembered who\NI was but like over the course of seven
years I always thought that\Nlike these people were like,
I gave them that 20 bucks two years\Nago and I never heard anything since,
cause that's happened to me.
Like I've given 20 bucks to two projects\Nand like they don't finish and you
don't hear from them and you're like,\Nall right there they're gone or whatever.
But like I would always throughout\Nthe entire course of of,
of production in post be\Nlike, you know, thank you.
Total stranger.
I know seed and spark and I'm sure all\Nthe other platforms have these success
stories where like for them it's\Nnot just one successful campaign,
it's people who've done like six,
seven of them and I don't know how\Nthese people are doing it, you know,
but they are and yeah,\Nexactly. So there and, and,
and as far as I'm concerned,
me saying that I am probably not going\Nto do another crowd funder does not mean
that I am any way like bashing\Nthat Avenue for acquiring funds.
It's just again,
you doing you right and saying like this\Nis what I feel comfortable with or you
know, and,
and maybe I'll do some\Nresearch and exploring of\Nother ways and I'm not going to
find anything. Maybe it's like, well I\Nguess this is the way I have to go. Um,
I don't know. I didn't even like I\Nwon't, I won't like I will, I will do,
it won't be a Kickstarter.\NIt will probably be on seed\Nand spark cause you know,
I, I, I had, I mean it's\Nthe perfect platform. Yeah.
I had other bad experiences with\NKickstarter. Indiegogo was fine,
but they're kind of not, they're kind\Nof like going down more a product road.
Um, and I just don't think it's as\Npopular a platform as it used to be. Um,
you know, so I probably won't do those.\NLike I'll probably do a seed and spark.
Um, but in the same vein, like six\Nyears ago, seed and spark didn't exist.
Right. So like you might feel\Nthe way you do now, but maybe,
maybe seen spark develops into something\Nelse, maybe another player enters.
Yeah, I mean there could be things we\Ncan't comprehend right now to you. Yeah.
Like so like, like you said in the\Nvery beginning of the whole thing,
like I reserve the right to change\Nmy mind. Exactly. Exactly. So.
Alright, well plug the movie\None more time. All right.
Even though it's not out\Nyet, tell people about it.
Tell people how they can learn more\Nabout it. So the film is called,
she had a coming, it's a supernatural,
dark comedy about a woman who\Nshe was killed at a baby shower.
That's part of the feature version and\Nwhat you would be seeing in the short is
the seance that is held,
that gathers all the suspects of who may\Nhave killed her at the baby shower and
they get to the bottom\Nof what happened to her.
Now you can keep up with all of our\Nupdates on a post and eventually as we get
out into the festival circuit through\Nour social channels, there is a,
she had it coming Facebook page,
she had it coming Insta and\Nshe had to coming Twitter. Yes.
They stay up to date on all the,
she had Cummings and a thank you so much\Nfor joining us on this episode of head
above water because that's what\Nit is. Like we have, you know,
we have our head above water and we're\Njust trying to figure our selves out in
this huge giant ocean of entertainment\Nand the film business and all of that
and, and everything that we\Nhave to do. So. And again,
thank you for joining us and\Nyou for joining me. And um,
good luck was she had it coming.\NThank you. It's been a pleasure.
So that was just part one of\Nour interview with Anna Keizer.
We had such a wonderful conversation\Nthat we had to spread it out into two
separate episodes. So our\Nsecond episode, we'll,
we'll have Anna come back and finish up\Nwith us and talk about some other things
beyond just crowdfunding,
general filmmaking stuff and what it's\Nlike to make your very first project.
So feel free to stay tuned.
We'll be back in a couple of weeks with\Nour second episode. And like I said,
we have some great guests\Ncoming up in the next few weeks,
so like following subscribe\Nand we will see you guys soon.
Thanks for joining us. Take care. Bye bye.